2005 Red Triangle, P3000...

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by thebloop, May 8, 2020.

  1. thebloop

    thebloop Junior Member

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    Greetings!

    Looking for help troubleshooting my 2005, 140K miles, I am the original owner. Car has been spending the spring sheltering in place, with only weekly trips around the neighborhood for exercise.
    I am not a great mechanic, or any kind of engineer, but I can generally work on cars and at least do no harm.
    The weather got hot, and The Bloop went all red triangle/warning light christmas tree.

    I had this happen before (2018) due to hot weather, neglect, and a low 12v battery. This time 12V measures low, fresh charge in the 12V (to a steady 12.6V and a passing grade on a load test) changes nothing.

    I obtain a Veepeak OBDII reader and the Dr Prius App. I am expecting to see that the battery is toast.
    Shows P3000 code only. Battery Control Unit
    Dr Prius shows the battery modules are all in the 7.6v neighborhood, except for #4 which is low, but module #1 alternates between positive and negative voltage every few seconds. This was an unexpected result. I shut it all down, disconnect the 12V and go inside to do more research.

    I hone in on the cause of the crazy readings as the voltage sensing circuits and/or the battery ECU connector. As in here: p3000 p3030 | PriusChat
    I dig into the back of the car, and checked the voltage sensing plug at the Battery ECU, look inside the Battery ECU, there is no evidence of arcing or corrosion of any kind. The orange connector is apparently not the culprit. Pin 22 is seemingly innocent.

    My thinking on the next step is: Remove the rest of the cover and check the voltage sensing wires where they connect to the modules, particularly at module 1 (the furthest from the Battery ECU, passenger side).
    Perhaps the erratic signal is from that connection, if not, then what?

    Obviously, I would prefer to not rule out any simple sensor/corrosion/wiring problems before taking about performing a full HV battery transplant.

    What else might cause the polarity oscillation readout in one of the modules? I'll check inside the case for corrosion or bad connection. I'm concerned about doing further Dr. Prius evaluations, which involve driving around, while something clearly abnormal is going on within the battery system.

    Any advice greatly appreciated.

    Peter
     
  2. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Welcome to your first post on Prius chat(y).

    If you are taking the cover off, check the voltage of the modules and investigate all of the connections;).

    I'd check the ECU pins while there as that can be the culprit:).

    Good luck and keep us posted(y).
     
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  3. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    Welcome to PriusChat!!

    Excellent work, many don't even bother with that amount of research and effort.

    You've likely found the main culprit with module pair #4 reading lower, and a sensing wire issue at pair #1, tear into the case and look for corrosion in the usual places. Then replace/clean the sensing harness if deemed necessary, otherwise swap the module(s) and balance.

    Have you already cleaned up the HV fan and checked the related connector for corrosion?
     
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  4. thebloop

    thebloop Junior Member

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    Thanks for your help, validation, welcome and encouragement.
    In today's episode of before-it-gets-too-hot-to-work; me vs. Prius...

    The cover has come off. I hope I can get most of those bolts back in the right order!

    the sensing wire for #1 (the US passenger/starboard most module) is corroded through.
    So there's my culprit as far as the goofy voltage readings. the other connectors look cruddy, but not like they're going to break.
    I am tempted to try to repair the broken connector with a new spade and a couple of inches of wire. A used loom is about $75 on fleabay
    What other options are there? OEM? Part #?

    As far as the modules, there are a couple of iffy ones and one definitely weak:

    From Passenger/Starboard/US Right side of car
    1- 7.56v *
    2- 7.69v
    3- 7.69v
    4- 7.70v
    5-7.70v
    6- 7.68v
    7- 6.43v **
    8- 7.68v
    9- 7.72v
    10- 7.69v

    11-7.71v
    12-7.69v
    13-7.71v
    14-7.72v
    15-7.71v
    16-7.71v
    17-7.70v
    18-7.71v
    19-7.71v
    20-7.69v

    21-7.72v
    22-7.71v
    23-7.72v
    24-7.71v
    25-7.72v
    26-7.69v
    27-7.72
    28- 7.58 *

    I don't see myself investing in equipment to balance and condition etc etc.
    If I fix the sensor connection, I am guessing the bad #7 will still be enough to throw a code.
    If I replace just that module, without balancing etc, is that useless?

    I'm torn between doing a sloppy home-brew wiring fix and putting all back together, or buying a new OEM battery, which I assume would include the sensor wiring to the orange plug at the battery ECU.
    The price difference is stark, and I haven't worked a paid day since March 7, so you can guess which way I'm leaning.

    Also, yes, I have cleaned up the cooling fan, and bench tested it.

    Advice? Comments? Experiences?

    Thanks!


    IMG_0189.jpg
     
  5. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    A brand new wire frame #2 is available from Toyota for $58 online....ToyotaPartsDeal.com

    Has the orange plastic frame, the copper busbars and the wire harness with ecu plug.

    Its the 6v module that's coding your battery. That's your least expensive replacement to get the car going again until you're in better financial condition.
     
  6. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    The wiring loom could be fine, but if you clean it up and it acts the same you will have to tear into it again.

    Recently paid $60 with free shipping from the least expensive dealer in CA as I needed a wiring harness sooner than later. Here is the part # for a new #2 voltage sensing harness : 82165-47040

    Enter your zip code, and right click through the list of dealers to find the best price. Use coupon/code "FAMILY" for free shipping.

    Not sure if the overseas OEM parts websites are shipping into the states, and though you could save some money, it could take awhile.

    Replacing the #7 module should be fine, and you won't know how long it will last even if you did balance or recondition, but any repair at this point is better than the other option(s).

    Inspect/clean up any corrosion in the white connector, located above and to the left of the circled black popup retainer in the image below:

    [​IMG]


    You might find these two threads to be an interesting read : Help With Next Move: Code P0AA6 and Subcode 612 | PriusChat


     
    #6 SFO, May 9, 2020
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
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  7. thebloop

    thebloop Junior Member

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    Thanks TMR-JWAP and SFO. Lots of acronyms in the house!

    I dusted off my soldering skills and grafted a new bit of wire onto the #1 sensor spade.
    I reassembled and went for a drive. That repair held, and I only have one extra 12mm bolt. A small but Pyrrhic victory

    It all stayed together for several minutes, no codes and smooth sailing, nice gradual charge and discharge - but on Dr. Prius block 4 is still reading as the most extreme voltage - low when resting or drawing, and highest when charging like on a long hill.
    I tried the Dr Prius battery tests, drove up and down some hills to get some electrons pushing around.
    I ended up with a new red triangle. the center temp sensor was in the high 130's, while the others were at 120..at one point I got a message that the inverter was too hot to force charge.
    Codes are P3000 and PA080

    I assume that battery overheating has to do the bad module, exacerbated by my aggressive driving.
    MY UNDERSTANDING: The low rent course of action is to obtain one module (from where?) and replace the #7, keeping everything else the same, the order of the modules, etc. This would require disassembling the battery on a bench, but should get me back on the road for a little while. Probably..
    I'll verify that the inverter cooling circuit is OK, pump and coolant.
    Thanks for the part info on the wire frame # 2 as well, I'll have to get one of these.
    The fan on battery is definitely kicking in. I will check the fan connector as well.

    I really appreciate your hand holding on this

    Peter
     
    #7 thebloop, May 9, 2020
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
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  8. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Want to kill an old hybrid battery? Stop using it let it sit for days.

    All your battery interconnect is very corroded at the least that will all have to be cleaned and the sensor wires replaced. One bad connection the system will detect it. Probably has a rotten connector at the ecu box too.Then all the modules will have to be separately charged then load tested to find the weak sister. Each module has to be able to provide rated current under load. That's doing it right at the minimum. A good rebuild is at the end after all that work you charge the whole pack outboard to balance it. Good 30-40 hours. Unless you want to spend your life going in and out of that battery box.

    Theirs literally hundreds of posts about hybrid battery rebuilds. One of the most common posts. Use the search forums link up top search

    hybrid battery and start reading.

    heres a good start

    Gen II Prius Individual Battery Module Replacement | PriusChat
     
    #8 edthefox5, May 10, 2020
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
  9. thebloop

    thebloop Junior Member

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    Thanks Edthefox5,

    Sitting with this for a while, I think I don't have the energy to take on a new hobby (battery balancing).
    I figure three modules plus the charger and power supply are going to be $300 ish. Plus the wire frame part.($60) plus ?
    Plus battling the corrosion. Plus spending a week fiddling with it and hoping I don't get zapped and it doesn't burn the house down.
    And ultimately, I don't want to put it all that work and have to do it again in X amount of time.
    Ugh.
    I think I will mothball the car until the $ starts to flow again and go pick up a new battery over the dealer parts counter

    QUESTION: the OEM replacement HV battery includes the wiring to the modules. True or False?
    ie. the orange plug that carries the voltage sensor wires to the battery ECU
    If not, then I'll need all new bus bus, and wire frame #2, etc etc

    The conversation in this thread discusses the OEM battery installation, but also mentions the module terminal torque, as if one would be installing the wire frame. Replacing the hybrid battery with a new Toyota battery | PriusChat

    I can see that the OEM replacement does NOT include the battery ECU, and the other connectors etc that are on that side of the battery.


    thanks

    Peter
     
    #9 thebloop, May 10, 2020
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
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  10. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    The new Toyota battery will have the wire harness(es) already installed. The electronics section of the old battery is swapped to the new battery and just plugged in. There's a few components that get swapped over, but it's basically just plug in.

    It will be similar to this battery, which was a new OEM Gen 3 still in the Toyota shipping case:

    For Sale - New in crate Toyota Prius replacement HV Battery | PriusChat
     
    #10 TMR-JWAP, May 10, 2020
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
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