2017 Toyota Prius Prime: 25 Miles EV Range, 54 MPG, $22,600*

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by Danny, Oct 3, 2016.

  1. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    correct
     
  2. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Correct what? If you purchase it in 2016 you claim it in the 2016 tax year. If you purchase it on January 1, 2017 you claim it for 2017. That means you could stop your tax witholding for how ever long it takes you to NOT pay $4500 in federal tax you would have otherwise paid.

    Right?
     
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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i am not a tax accountant or attorney, nor do i play one on priuschat.
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    If you buy at the beginning of the year, you can lower your withholding until you get the credit amount, and then reset the withholding back to the normal level.
     
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  5. CoolMoon

    CoolMoon New Member

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    How do yo do that? Just submit some forms to IRS so that your employer won't deduct the federal tax from your paycheck until it reaches the $4500 limit?
     
  6. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    It's form W-4 and you file it with your employer:

    https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw4.pdf

    Some employers may allow one to do this electronically.
     
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It is the W-4 iplug linked too.
    Unfortunately, you can't state a flat dollar amount to not be withheld, though they let you do so for any extra amount you want withheld.
    So you have to increase the number exemptions from what you normally have, and track what now isn't withheld on your paystatements. Then switch back to your normal exemptions once you reach the $4500.
     
  8. jdonalds

    jdonalds Active Member

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    There used to be a way to declare the exact dollar amount by entering 99 dependents.
     
  9. jdonalds

    jdonalds Active Member

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    At this moment I'm doing an about face on the new Prime. I had assumed that we would be saving money by driving on EV most of the time. But for us Toyota has a problem, and that problem is the regular Prius hatchback.

    With our recent local cheapest gas at $2.48/gallon, and $0.15 KWh electricity charge the EV mode of the 2017 Prime is just about equal in fuel cost as our 2015 hatchback. Saving money in EV mode then depends on future gas and electric rates. It's likely both will go up.

    I'd love to put solar on the roof to charge the Prime but our neighborhood is maxed out for solar so I'm restricted by the city and can't install solar.

    I'd really like to be able to drive in EV mode but it isn't worth it to me to buy a new car just for that feature. It has to save me money in the long run. If I had a gas guzzler it would be a different story. But we have both a 2008 and 2016 Prius Hatchback so we are already so efficient the Prime no longer makes sense. I had assumed we would be saving 1/3 to 1/2 the cost per mile but at this moment that's not so.
     
  10. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    The break-even point for $0.15/kWh electricity is about $2,05 gas, given the EPA numbers.

    The long-term cost of owning a car is more about initial capital cost than anything else. Next tends to be insurance. Fuel, especially for a Prius, is pretty far down the list.
     
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  11. Prius Maximus

    Prius Maximus Senior Member

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    Compared to my 2014, the prime has better more comfortable seats, better ride and handling, better safety features, better driving assistance technolgy, better efficiency, and no freaking flying buttress. That's a win win win in my book, regardless of gas or electric prices. On the other side, my 14 has better cargo capacity and a 5th seat I never use.

    Is it financially responsible to swap the 14 for a prime? No. But the benefits may outweigh the costs.
     
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  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    what to do when gas goes to $4.?
     
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  13. jdonalds

    jdonalds Active Member

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    We paid about $5K more for the 2008 Prius than our second choice which was a non-hybrid Civic. I figure we've saved about $7,000 in fuel cost over the Civic so we are ahead on overall cost. Insurance would have been about the same either way. So fuel cost is the second major factor, but it made up for the difference in price.

    My estimates on the Prime come from figuring having to recharge the 8.8KW battery after 25 miles @ 0.15/KWh which equals $1.32 for the 25 miles, or $2.64 for 50 miles. 50 miles only costs us $2.48 in gas in our 2015 Prius hatchback. That doesn't account for inefficiencies in the charging process which could further increase the number of kilowatts to fully recharge the Prime battery.
     
  14. jdonalds

    jdonalds Active Member

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    When gas goes back to $4 the Prime would make more sense - if electricity rates don't also rise by the same amount. By my calculations if electricity is at 23 cents/KWh it equals $4 in gas equivalent. Going up from 15 cents to 23 cents is quite a jump, but so is going from $2.48 to $4. Other people in our area, on PG&E are paying 25 cents / KWh.

    The big win might come from installing solar on the roof to charge the Prime. But of course solar is quite expensive to install...

    Bottom line is just driving a Prime isn't necessarily a big win when compared to a standard Prius. It depends...
     
  15. PriusC_Commuter

    PriusC_Commuter Active Member

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    Assuming gas prices go back up to $4 before the Prime 2 is released.
    I'm in a similar position with my family's set of cars, as we have also maximized our "fuel" savings as it is (although I'm more interested in the Tesla Model 3 than the Prius Prime, so I have more time before the decision comes up). On paper, it won't make sense for you financially to get the Prime. However, the emotional value of a car is not included with numerical breakdowns, so you will need to decide how much you want the Prime to see if it's worth the cost to you.
    I think you are underestimating the energy efficiency of the Prime. I think it will get closer to 25 kWh/100 miles, which translates closer to $1.88 for 50 miles (not including charging inefficiencies) at $0.15/kWh.
    I don't think most utility companies charge that much for super off-peak time of use rates. Without time of use rates, the cost to charge plug-in cars goes up quite a bit (in California, I can't speak for other states). But then brings along the question of whether it's worth it to switch to TOU rates if your only plug-in is a Prius Prime, which is highly YMMV.
     
  16. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    No, the usable amount of the battery is much less than 8.8kWh. Here's how to do the math:

    133MPGe is the EPA rating. That includes all the losses including charging, battery in-and-out, power electronics and motor losses. That's 133miles per 33.7kWh (the electric equivalent of a gallon of gasoline). 33,700Wh/133 miles is 253 Wh/mile or 12,650Wh per 50 miles. 12.65 * 0.15 = $1.90 for 50 miles.
     
  17. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    You should take ~6.2kWh (from the wall) and not the full capacity of the battery. 6.2 x 0.15 = $ 0.93 per 25 miles.
     
  18. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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  19. PriusC_Commuter

    PriusC_Commuter Active Member

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  20. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    It just shows what price per kWh of electricity is even with what price of gas per gallon - for whatever range.
     
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