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Any ideas on how to proceed? sudden power failure while driving...

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by I_auto_know..., Feb 24, 2023.

  1. I_auto_know...

    I_auto_know... Junior Member

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    Back on January 27th, I was driving my 2004 Prius down I-95, about 70 miles from my home, when suddenly, I smelled a bad smell, possibly electrical insulation, and abruptly lost ALL POWER (!). This is confidence-shaking, I assure you, especially when you are in the middle lane, surrounded by big trucks. Or maybe I should say, faith-building, as it was a miracle I could get to the right shoulder!

    I was unable to get any response from the powertrain, and coasted to a stop on the side of the road. We could not get the car into neutral. A towtruck got us back to our house in Stafford, VA, (by slathering the wheels and his roll-off deck with oil, letting the wheels skitter up the slide) and my usual mechanic opined that it might well have been the alternator. Other PriusChat members suggested the Inverter pump in other situaltions. I have no DTC codes yet.

    The vehicle is now still outside, and there is more rain and possibly snow coming this winter. The wheels are locked. I attempted to get the DTC codes, but cannot get the system to behave: I have included a short 10-second video of what the dash lights say upon activating the power button.

    There do not seem to be any blown fuses, especially having checked AM-2.

    So I have a question: to get the car into the warm, dry garage here, since it does not go into "ON" or "READY",
    is there any way to either (a) easily isolate the alternator out of the system, (so I can read the codes) and maybe get it into "ON"
    or (b) hotwire the transmission to go into neutral ? I read the posts on dead batteries, etc.
    but view the video, please. The mp4 is tho only thing in the zip file below...

    I have the factory manual (from RockAuto), and have not gotten good results from the spurious Techstream software. I put the Panalong bluetooth DTC reader to try using the Dr Prius app, but the device got fried....
    My clunky code reader says it can't make the CAN bus connection...

    I think Advance Auto will test the alternator if I bring it in, but it has been too cold to work outside....
    Any ideas on how I might go about tackling this problem?
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    there's no altenator. stay away from your mechanic.

    what does the voltage measure at the front jump point?

    how many miles on her?
     
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  3. highmilesgarage

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    you need to dig deeper into the electrical connections/fuses, the car doesn't have power and putting in the scanner will not do anything. Where is that burning smell located? check that area.
     
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  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Ok, that's odd. You're telling a very classic Gen 2 inverter-pump-makes-stinky-smoke-and-eats-AM2 story, except for saying you've checked AM2.

    How did you check AM2 exactly? And have you taken a whiff near the inverter pump?

    Just for grins, what happens if you unplug the indicated connector anyway, and put a known-good 15 amp fuse into the AM2 slot?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  5. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    "what they said"

    I would measure voltage at the underhood jumpstart point while having someone else try and power up the car. See if it stays above 11.5-12.0V.

    If it does, then unplug the single wire (white - black trace) connector behind and in board of the fuse block. Then replace AM2 fuse anyway and try it again. The inverter pump can "partially" short and cause voltage drop on the power feed. Usually it completely blows the fuse, but sometimes ... not quite.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     

    Attached Files:

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  6. I_auto_know...

    I_auto_know... Junior Member

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    You folks are wonderful, thank you. I changed the inverter pump without further tests.

    Bisco asks for mileage: 259,307. Front jump point, mind you, this is with the new pump now. 0.01v but battery reads 11.95v. I am staying away from that mechanic, (except for brakes. He's very good at that...)

    Highmilesgarage: stink coming from burn-hole on underside of old pump. See photo 01

    ChapmanF: and "just for grins", I did change out AM2. Wow! great idea. Suddenly I get dash display and code reader can now connect with CAN bus. The blown fuse does not look blown at all. More below.

    Mr_guy_mann: so indeed it did blow the fuse and maybe some other component (see continuing symptoms). Unplugging the cable, probably due to the blown fuse (I did that just before changing the pump, to see if I could get to the "on" state), but it made no difference, but I was encouraged by your collective unanimity, so I just went ahead and replaced the pump.



    A tip for others similarly situated-- when you loosen the inverter, remove the bolts in front, but only loosen, DO NOT REMOVE COMPLETELY the 12mm behind the inverter. It will permit the inverter to raise up higher, but will not take forever to restart the threads on the bolt hidden in back. Just retighten it.



    Again, thank you all. Not wanting to subject my 75-year-old wife to a similar thrilling experience, I sprang for the factory pump, G9020-47031. But who knows, maybe I could have pulled a junkyard part with equal risk....

    Next, I cannot get from "on" to "ready". Red triangle in "on". See photo 04 showing dash display.

    I will try to decipher the wiring diagram, as recommended in the hunt suggested by highmileagegarage. I get the "red car" on the MFD, and the word "problem" and some warning lights, but NO DTC CODES reading on my Innova 3100. (!) see photo 03

    Is there a relay or other component that might cause the zero voltage on the front jump point, and my display symptoms?

    I will try to get some pictures posted. so far, this is very successful!!
    -Daniel 01 Stinky old pump, showing hole.png 02 G9020-47031.png 03 DTC codes.png 04 Dashboard, must see.png 05 MFD, showing red car.png 01 Stinky old pump, showing hole.png 02 G9020-47031.png 03 DTC codes.png 04 Dashboard, must see.png 05 MFD, showing red car.png 01 Stinky old pump, showing hole.png
     
  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The most promising next step would be to get your hands on, or find someone who has, a scan tool that can see all the codes in a Prius, so it doesn't tell you there aren't any. :) Then you'll see why the red triangle is on and the car won't go ready, and we can determine what to do about it.

    I'm glad you didn't say "red triangle of deeeaaaaaaattthhhh" the way so many people do. Some of the codes that light it up can indicate serious issues, but some are also perfectly quick to deal with once you know what it's going on about.

    Your jump point voltage puzzles me, though. I'm quite sure that jump point is on the battery side of the front fusible link, so the explanation can't even be that. Have you checked the fuses and connections in the little block that sits on the battery + post?

    I'm thinking most likely something was off in your jump point measurement. If there were really zero volts there, you wouldn't be getting even as far as you're getting now with the power button.

    Some reviews of which tools are good for getting all the codes are here:

    Gen2 OBD2 app review | PriusChat
     
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  8. highmilesgarage

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    that scanner is just basic obd2, you need 1 that can read the computer modules. I use Autel MaxiAP instead of techstream since a laptop is very inconvenient to lug around. I also use Xtool a30d on the prius which does the same but a little bit pricey (it has free license on other car models)

     
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  9. I_auto_know...

    I_auto_know... Junior Member

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    Can I use
    Autel MaxiAP AP200 OBD2 Scanner Bluetooth Wireless
    With Dr Prius app or Torx app? I do have the laptop with a spurious/pirate version of techstream, so I will try that, but techstream wants to update and limits functionality.

    I found on page 92 of the wiring diagram, a relay on IGCT, (the INV W/P relay)and I found these pixs on priuschat

    Integration Module Removal | PriusChat

    I'd happily change out the relay...if I knew which one it be...

    No, I did not study the area by the 12v battery. I will report back...

    Daniel
     
  10. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Is it 'limiting' so much functionality it won't even connect and read codes? That's the only task for the moment.
     
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  11. ColoradoCrow

    ColoradoCrow Active Member

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    This works well with a Gen 2? What about Dr. Prius? I assume it can read subcodes. I'm looking to finally buy a more indepth scan tool. I run a Iphone but also have MacBook Pro and a few Windows machines.
     
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  12. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Dr. Prius is pretty limited in what codes and information it will show you; it's pretty much tailored for battery preening.

    Check the link of reviews in #7.
     
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  13. I_auto_know...

    I_auto_know... Junior Member

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    While I go fetch the laptop, here is a photo of my fuse block and some pages from the wiring diagrams.
    In the .zip file are several that seem to be 2004 specific. Back soon, hopefully with codes....

    -Daniel

    View attachment 237751
     

    Attached Files:

  14. I_auto_know...

    I_auto_know... Junior Member

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    OK, OK, OK I'm embarrassed enough, already.:oops: Rookie mistake: P3140.

    I must've pushed the HV safety plug lever up instead of down, after putting it back in.... Hey, I was working on the Inverter bolts in back...lots of orange wires there.... I know, you don't want to hear my feeble excuses. Hey, I gave you guys a chuckle, no?

    So that explains the lack of voltage on the front jump point, I guess. Bear with me, now.....I fixed that one.



    So then I got the following from Techstream before the 12v battery went down to 5.52v. I am isolating and recharging it now.
    C1242, C2310 and C2318.

    So right now, it is obvious to me that I must charge up the 12v battery again.....
    More later....

    I guess the good news is that no other codes are showing up (unless you count the B- codes, which I don't...)

    d
     

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  15. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Not so fast. ;) This almost raises more questions than it answers.

    It's interesting that there is no P3140 in a 2006 Gen 2 repair manual. The HV interlock code by then was P0A0D. But in a Gen 1 manual, it was P3140.

    P0 codes are those standardized by SAE for all makes, and P3 codes are jointly defined by SAE and a manufacturer. So clearly what happened there was, at first, SAE had not carved out a standardized code for "hey, your safety interlock's open", so Toyota used a P3 code for it in Gen 1, and still into early Gen 2, but by 2006 SAE had said "you know, that'd be a good code to have" and standardized P0A0D for it, and Toyota changed to the standard code.

    [​IMG]

    None of that changes one fact, though: there's nothing about that interlock that would affect the 12 volt reading you get on the front jump point. There is nothing between that point and the 12 volt battery besides a fat copper wire and a big ol' fuse.

    My best story for your earlier zero volt measurement at the jump point is still that you didn't have some meter probe quite where you thought you did. You were able to get some lights and stuff from the car even then, and if that voltage had really been zero you would have got nuthin'.
     
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  16. I_auto_know...

    I_auto_know... Junior Member

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    Steady READY.jpg Wow! after charging the 12v battery, it went into "Ready" mode, and I was able to park it in the garage!

    I'm only seeing the minor "B" codes. So good news.

    Thanks for your input, Colorado Crow, and thanks for toughin' it out with me, ChapmanF.

    To cover my shame, I'll call the "red triangle of deeeaaaaaaattthhhh" the

    "red triangle of the-dog-ate-my-HV-safety-plug" from now on.....

    Over and out, guys. Let you know in a few days how it is behaving.... hope we all had as much fun as I did!

    Oh, and don't forget to look towards the setting sun right now, to see the AMAZING conjunction of Jupiter and Venus!
     
  17. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    What B codes are there? What are you calling minor?

    If you have a B1421, that one legitimately is minor. Its whole purpose is to tell you if the solar sensor works. In the dark? B1421. In the sun? No B1421. So that one is never really telling you of any problem (unless you have it when the sun's out ... or you don't have it in the dark).

    Any others are genuinely trying to tell you stuff.
     
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  18. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    This is the reason you should check fuses for continuity with an ohmmeter to verify it is good, and not just rely on visual inspection.
    What were you using for the ground point?
    Always make sure the WiFi is off and that you are not connected to any network, just to be safe. Techstream will work offline just fine and no need to get updates unless you need to work on the latest models.
     
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  19. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Yeah, the screenshot in post #14 isn't talking about any loss of the usual offline functionality. It's talking about not being able to do things like check or update the car's coverage under active service campaigns ... the kind of thing where you'd naturally expect it would have to phone home.
     
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  20. highmilesgarage

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    Not sure about subcodes, it works really well on my Toyota Camry and Lexus GX470 too. For the price I wouldn't buy any of the overpriced obd2 scanners. I have an Xtool a30d and it works too, it has some limited bi-directional control. I bought the Xtool since Autel charges you an extra license for additional car brands (only 1 forever free license is included)
     
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