Brake fluid change and ac

Discussion in 'Prime Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by EazyPeazy, Jun 3, 2020.

  1. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    4,911
    2,005
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    Any chance that they call it something else......use a different term, maybe ?
    You said "Toyota does not recommend a change interval for brake fluid", not mentioning any model(s) or years.
    That sounds like it is a universal "non-recommendation". Is that true ?
     
  2. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    4,911
    2,005
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    AND even "funnier" if they DO have a recommendation for other non-hybrid models.
     
  3. lech auto air conditionin

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    566
    412
    213
    Location:
    san francisco
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    As for brake fluid flush especially how expensive ABS modules are to replace and if you’re going to keep this vehicle to the end of life. Being a fourth generation mechanic I can tell you myself and family do brake flush is every 3 to 4 years. I myself once a year during one of my oil changes have a thin suction straw that I push inside when removing the brake cap down into the brake fluid reservoir and I suck out all the brake fluid as much as I can and replace it with new brake fluid I do this every year.
    It’s easy it’s cheap you don’t need special equipment you could use a turkey baster and Jerry rig some vinyl or plastic tubing to the end of the nozzle. It keeps a constant new dry brake fluid in your reservoir at least.

    As for air conditioning on the Prius prime they must be pretty good as of yet I have not came across a single failed or pattern problem air conditioning Prius prime.
    Since the car is brand new you could probably get away with three or four years without doing your first AC recharge. But I would not wait for it to start giving you poor performance warmer temperatures Out your dash. Because that means for a long time already the compressor was starving for a flow of cool refrigerant back to it to keep itself cooled off in the oil starts to slow down on its return to the compressor.
    And that means a reduced life of the compressor I cannot even imagine how expensive it would be to completely replace and flush out the entire system on a heat pump Prius prime due to its extreme complexity of extra piping and solenoid’s in the system the cost would be astronomical if everything got littered with burnt black oil and tiny metal flakes from a slowly dying burning out compressor.
     
  4. FuelMiser

    FuelMiser Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2008
    940
    656
    0
    Location:
    Monument, CO
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Aha! Perhaps my theory doesn't hold water (pun intended). I also own German cars, and they uniformly recommend brake fluid flush every two years.
     
  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    11,966
    8,667
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    It's really quite easy to stick a Brake Rock on the pedal, reach an arm behind a rear wheel, and crack a bleed screw enough to get a small sample of fluid, which you expect to be the darkest and disgustingest in the system.

    Mine at 145,000 miles:

    [​IMG]

    110,000 miles in hobbit's Gen 2:

    [​IMG]
     
    MTN likes this.
  6. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    4,911
    2,005
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    In this context, please define "recharge" for us.

    If there is a site glass in the system, a quick visual check should be good enough.
    If not, then connecting the gauges would be required.
    But no need to add anything if it is not low to begin with.
     
  7. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    4,911
    2,005
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    I thought that was universal for ALL vehicle makers.
    If it is missing in some Toyota maintenance lists, I think it is a simple mistake and not a real change of policy.
    Extending the recommended interval would be one thing; suggesting that it can be extended to "never" is quite another.
     
  8. lech auto air conditionin

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    566
    412
    213
    Location:
    san francisco
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    good question, There is no such ting as topping off... RECHARG = 1: completely recovering the refrigerant. 2: Vacuum down to 500 microns or lower 200 to 100 microns, the lower the better. This is at the point when you start to remove moisture only. 29'' vacuum basically dose nothing. 3: recharge by weight only.

    Bubbles mean almost nothing, too many variables (pardon the pun). You can have clear sight glass with a near 1/2 empty charge and other case you can bubbles with a full charge. I have shown many auto shop owners this who have been topping off for 10 or 30+ years because they lack knowledge and learn old school way never advancing. Never knowing the compressor burn up because of them.
    I'v made youtube videos showing this topic also on how much just 1 or 2 oz over or under charge can affect the small capacity refrigerant charge on a electric compressor Prius.

    if you visit my photo album in Pruis chat I have many photos of burned up Prius and description of cause. Most caused by topping off and body shops ( the least educated among the automotive trade)

    In the auto motive trade we love the guys who use cans and the bubble method. They make us the most money burning up compressors next to the customer who wait to it is too late and let the refrigerant get too low.
     
  9. lech auto air conditionin

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    566
    412
    213
    Location:
    san francisco
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    I forgot to mention the you tube videos. search for

    2006 Prius “How Customers Kill Their Electric AC Compressor

    this is one of many videos on Prius, my youtube name is ( t lech )
     
  10. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    4,911
    2,005
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    I never suggested that "topping off" was a good thing.......when in the hands of an amateur.

    IF.....there are only a few little bubbles going past the site glass AND the system is cooling good.......then there is no reason to mess with it.
    NONE.

    Then.....if it does need service, it needs a COMPLETE service, unless there is an obvious and easily fixed leak.
    If that is the case, there is no good reason that a trained and experienced HVAC technician can not "top it up" if the loss is minimal.
     
  11. lech auto air conditionin

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    566
    412
    213
    Location:
    san francisco
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    I did not think you were strongly suggesting the bubble method. but those who would read the document and take that as the one word rule of the Bible of HVAC using the bubble method I did have to strongly suggest that is absolutely in no way shape form any professional or even semi professional way of charging air-conditioning. Absolutely no experience HVAC technician would ever top off or use the bubble method. We consider that somebody with very little knowledge no formal education only the experience of hard knocks and breaking things do it yourself or‘s in the category of Beavis and Butthead or Homer Simpson would use the topping off or bubble method.
    Usually the result of hand me down information garages that deal with high volume low paid technicians who are on a bonus program or service advisors who are trying to make a bonus cut every corner they can to make a speedy Dollar $$$ on their paycheck bonus program.

    For the guys who actually know the difference between right and wrong in the damage it does they look down at the guy to use the bubble method where are the cans and gas by pressure or temperature as a disgrace disgusting part of our trade in laughable even a joke that It is even suggested.

    As a movie reference as a comparison of what we think of those types of shops and technicians . I think but I’m not sure if it was called (The Wolves of Wall Street). Not 100% sure if that was the one because they made more than one movie about that.
    that one bar scene where is the new upcoming uneducated and unskilled fast talking shysters who would intentionally talk people into doing investments that were bad they knew they would probably lose their money just because they got bigger bonuses quick fast cash grab. Those thugs hoodlums walked into a legitimate high-end nightclub bar scene with real Wall Street traders who are legitimate skilled educated and worked for the highest esteem firms. In the so-called street thug new blood Wall Street shyster guys walked into the bar and on the faces of the older well-established educated Wall Street traders you could see their disgust having to share the same bar with such individuals. Just because they’re related by trade in the same title and name brings disgrace to the whole industry. That’s about as best analogy as I could come up with.
     
  12. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    4,911
    2,005
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    And I think you protest too much.

    Along with gauging the actual cooling, observing the presence or absence of bubbles in a site glass in just a clue as to whether things are OK or not. Nothing more and nothing less.
    I do not contend that there is any "bubble method".

    And finally......all over the world, every day there are THOUSANDS (maybe millions) of "fixed base" HVAC units that are serviced by having minor leaks fixed, mostly at loose fittings, that then "topped up" with coolant. The systems in cars are NOT that much different.

    Rant on if you please........but I'm done.
     
  13. lech auto air conditionin

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    566
    412
    213
    Location:
    san francisco
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Two

    HVAC ? ! Excellent topic you just brought up. Actually the HVAC community and the HVAC/R are having the same problem with uneducated old-school learn by hard Knox technicians topping off systems what they call (Beer Can Cold). since the United States is one of the last countries on earth that still are just now in the last few years phasing out Neanderthal Neanderthal fix speed compressor residential and commercial HVAC units. That were extremely energy wasting in only took technicians with a small cranial mass to work on them and provide her highest profit margin‘s for our capitalist sales machine. Nearly 40 years ago the rest of the world has phase this out because it consumes so many resources to power them with energy it’s like if you gave every person on earth to drive around in a hummer with no catalytic converter that were tuned up by Billy Bob Butt Crack with black smoke spewing out the tailpipe. I have a YouTube video of an old-school technician who came out to one of my new HVAC Installations that was just a few years old and he did exactly what you said he “topped off The old-school way”.

    And because it was a VRF system (variable refrigerant flow). Now look at the Prius compressor a variable speed compressor Now look at the Prius compressor a variable speed compressor same thing different name. That old school technician decided to top off and add refrigerant and burned up the compressor. Next thing I get a call to come out and find out what’s wrong with the system and find a burnt out compressor and a system that is overcharged. This is a phenomenon or a disease that is happening in the commercial and residential HVAC systems all over the United States due to extremely uneducated people who have no technical training and no formal education and education. So $8800 later after replacing the compressor just like all the other systems that get destroyed when I get called out to the old school days on top off systems incorrectly. Just to perform the recovery procedure alone was almost $1000 a man hours. The R410 refrigerant that had to be replaced was 78 pounds. Yes I am extremely familiar with all the technicians who top off HVAC systems. That one system alone I Sold and my son and I installed was just under $100,000.

    The old school days of using superheat and sub cooling or just plain putting your hand on a Suction line Suction line pipe and filling it to Beercan cold has come to an end.

    And using the reference of technicians around the world the matter of fact nearly 40 years ago around the world started using Vaitable refrigerant flow and Vaitable speed compressors electric three phase and single phase in HVAC because they were quieter, smaller compact, And 40% to 60% more efficient than the American counterparts installed in the United States. Because in many countries energy costs are so high it literally can take up one 1/4 to 1/2 half of a Blue call her workers wage So it is used sparingly like food.

    Is extremely desperate need for formally educated trained technicians in the HVAC industry that are willing to hire anybody who has a pulse and shows up to work because that’s all they have to choose from due to our public education system that shut down to trades in high schools over 30 years ago. Auto shop, Wood shop, Metal shop ( needed for HVAC Metal fabrication of ductwork ) full-blown college level electrical and electronics labs, ( needed for electronic circuit boards to be diagnosed on the HVAC units and installing the electrical service from either single phase 120 V or 240 V or three phase 208 V, 240 V, 277 V, 480 V,)
    Now that the technology in the forced EPA and energy requirements of title 24 of the building code are mandating in forcing United States of America corporations to adopt high energy efficient electronics and motors and compressors the population is so uneducated They cannot keep up with the technology and manufactures are having hundreds of millions of dollars in equipment failures and eating warranties due to improper installation and diagnostic procedures of old-school technicians who like to rely on bubbles and a hand on a suction line Beercan cold.
    The poor residential consumer who calls his local HVAC company out with the young kid with the suit and patches who is stuck into a van before he was properly educated and have a Not enough experience because the owner doesn’t have the time money or resources to train them properly. Not to mention most of the old owners are not educated income from the old school break it and then learn how to fix it and charge the customer for it. Just like the automotive technicians who are not familiar with the electric compressor on a Prius do.

    Now in the last five years and a little more America does not own the patents for all this advanced technology of energy-efficient compressors and VFD drive boards for the motors because they’re lazy cheap and ignorant and force-fed the consumer market old antiquated products that were a high profit margin. Now that they’re being forced and we have no manufacturing and no engineers with the experience to build such devices every major HVAC company has teamed up with a foreign manufacturer like FUJITSU, Daikon, Mitsubishi, LG, Samsung, GREE, Toshiba, Midea, (Japan, Korea, China)
    They either have the American brand-name units manufactured overseas or purchase the more advanced parts and assemble them in Mexico Canada a little bit of the United States and they slap American name on it and sell it to a American consumer.
    But many of the installations go bad because of the guy who’s places his hand on the line and charges by temperature or looks at the site glass and charges by bubbles. Our education level is so low in the United States many foreigners have a hidden under the table joke in amazement how America became so great at one time but yet has fallen so fast.

    We (Americans) are referred to in translation as the boy who sat on the porch playing The banjo in the movie deliverance.

    Yes you’re 100% correct (“you are done”!.

    Rant on if you please........but I'm done.[/QUOTE]

    Edited: Voice to text while driving not proofreading and posting bad combination
     
    #33 lech auto air conditionin, Jun 6, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
  14. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2018
    4,911
    2,005
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    If there is a reply hiding in there, you might want to edit the post so that it shows up properly.
     
  15. Douglas E Solomon

    Douglas E Solomon New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2020
    2
    1
    0
    Location:
    94024
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    You failed to realize that the Gen 2 Prius has a pressure sensor next to the high side glass view port that disables the compressor if the pressure is low. The last two digits of the dtc code is 23.
     
  16. lech auto air conditionin

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    566
    412
    213
    Location:
    san francisco
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    But it does not disable the AC system in time it allows it to run continuously hard and heavy extremely hot running compressor at high rpm’s way before that pressure switch ever disables the system. I did not forget I intentionally didn’t mention it because it’s not worth mentioning. It’s like an idiot light on the old cars from the 60s and 70s or 80s when it came on after you blew the engine or just prior to blowing a head gasket. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t.

    That’s what category the Prius pressure sensor switch is in

    With an added temperature sensor in the case of the compressor and adding a few lines of code to change the parameters for the logic in which it engages in disengages the compressor this can be remedied but that would cost several dollars more per vehicle where every penny counts to keep your cars cost lower than the competition so that’s not gonna happen
     
  17. PriusII&C

    PriusII&C Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2013
    151
    56
    0
    Location:
    San Jose, California
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    II
    @ChapmanF: Just confirm, your measurement shows 10 ppm for both cars at over 11 yrs, 110k/145k miles, respectively, on the original brake fluid. There is no need to replace the brake fluid, correct?

    The reason I ask is because I have a Prius and a Prius C, both are 2012 model year and both have about 110k miles. On one hand I want to get them maintained properly, on the other hand I don't want to do something necessarily. For me there is always a chance to get something messed up, either by me or by the so-called "professionals".

    IIRC, in a thorough study reported on PC someone concluded similarly to your results: his Prius brake fluid was still in very good condition after 100k+ miles driving. I just cannot find the link.
     
  18. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    11,966
    8,667
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    It may have been hobbit; at least, he did so study and so conclude, and the image of his test strip that was in my post came from his page, but it looks like I didn't give his link. Here it is (scroll down past the tires).

    I wouldn't be surprised if you found another report on PC saying the same thing; hobbit certainly didn't apply for a monopoly on brake fluid testing. But his report is the one I know about.

    Of course, driving and environmental conditions can be different, and if you're really looking for some peace of mind without having work done just to do it, you can get those strips for not a lot of money and dip your own.
     
  19. PriusII&C

    PriusII&C Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2013
    151
    56
    0
    Location:
    San Jose, California
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Yes, you are right. It is hobbit, and the lower picture did come from his report.

    What about the top picture of the 145k test? That's from you, right? how do I read the result? Also 10 PPM?
     
  20. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    11,966
    8,667
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    That was mine, and yes, it looks ten-ish to me.

    You can see that when hobbit did his, the test strips were brake-only, and the smallest package available was that cylinder of them (100? I don't know), probably more than a non-commercial user would be able to justify.

    By the time I checked mine, the supplier was offering combo strips (brake fluid on one end, coolant on the other) and in smaller packages of 15 individually sealed, reasonable enough for me to pick one package up, keep some, give some to some friends....
     
    #40 ChapmanF, Feb 26, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
Loading...