Car & Driver Says Prime Ugly, Too Slow

Passing is only unsafe if you pass when you shouldn't. If you know the capabilities and limits of your car you can pass safely.

 

Pulling onto a highway in HV, I do find the Prime more sluggish than my Gen 2 was, and as I mentioned on another thread, this also seems somewhat temperature related. The few days above 50 degrees I notice a pretty big difference in performance compared to the days that are below 20.

 

If you need to go 70 to pass someone you shouldn't be passing them. (not directed at you MrMischief).

Any police officer or judge will tell you that exceeding the speed limit to pass someone is illegal. First, if they're doing the speed limit, going faster is illegal. If they're going slower than the limit, then exceeding the limit to pass is not necessary. If it is apparently necessary due to oncoming traffic, then you shouldn't be passing....

/end rant. I've been passed too many times - in no passing zones no less - when doing 5 or a bit more over.

At no time have I had a problem with being underpowered. Hit that pedal to the floor when merging on to a 70 MPH interstate, it'll get you there. Or better, plan ahead and stay slow till the cars pass.

 

Perhaps in your jurisdiction, but not necessarily in Washington state.

"That a person following a vehicle driving at less than the legal maximum speed and desiring to pass such vehicle may exceed the speed limit, subject to the provisions of RCW 46.61.120 on highways having only one lane of traffic in each direction, at only such a speed and for only such a distance as is necessary to complete the pass with a reasonable margin of safety."
RCW 46.61.425: Minimum speed regulation—Passing slow moving vehicle.

My problem is that I learned this in Driver Ed, but no longer live in WA.

 

The presumption of that law is probably that the posted speed limit applies to the entire highway, whereas passing areas are normally going to be the safest sections of highway, i.e. relatively straight, good visibility, no side roads intersecting. So in some (not all) cases you could in theory safely exceed the speed limit. But then again like they say, "Tell that to the judge"

 

When someone's passing me (the usual case, do not know why ): I touch the brakes, give them a high beam signal when they're clear. As often as not I was doing the limit, and their oncoming visibility was less than ideal.

 

If I try that they'd slam on the brakes and run me off the road. No lie - true story: Dense fog, visibility about 3 car lengths. Rural area. Known to have deer. Out of nowhere this SUV comes up 70 mph and gets on my bumper. I'm doing 35 and thought I was pushing it. Within a half mile he's got his brights flashing and then leaves them on. I'm blinded. Can't pull over because I can't see the road edge and it's got a ditch. To be nice and make it easier for him to pass I slow to 20 and pull over until I feel the pavement edge. Stay like this for about a mile then he finally passes me. Gets in front, hits the brakes hard and comes to a fast stop. Then it's 5 MPH for a mile. Literally. Then he finally takes off at 70 or whatever. Dude, if you're that much in a hurry and want to kill yourself, just go do it and quit wasting your time. I already know you're a posterior of a person, you don't need to keep proving it.

 

But I am not sure just how slow 50-70 in 7 seconds is in the real world. Do you Prime owners think it has plenty enough get-up-and-go to merge safely onto crowded highways? ​

My 2003 Prius took 13 seconds to reach 60 mph. Understand you are citing just the Car & Driver, EV mode whereas in hybrid mode, Prime is like the Gen-3, ~10 seconds. Car and Driver wrote a misleading paragraph when they cited just EV modes until three paragraphs later, the last sentence, they finally told the truth,". . . In hybrid mode, the run to 60 mph takes 10.2 seconds versus the EV mode’s 12.2, . . . "

I suspect the C&D review was a bit of a hatchet job by their speed-obsessed writer, but what is the honest opinion of Prime drivers? ​

The Prius is not for everyone and Car and Driver left out safety technology like dynamic cruise control and accident avoidance. They are selling to a different type of car buyer and such omissions are understandable.

I think I'll be happy with the Prime, just want to see what you folks think about the car's performance, your happiness with it, etc. Thanks!​

Having owned a 2003 and 2010 Prius, even an engine-only test drive was enough to buy the 2017 Prime. However, I've been doing efficient driving studies on the Prius for 12 years and since 1971 if we include my 1966 VW MicroBus. Car & Driver and I have different car goals:

	metric	Volt	Prime
1	EPA	43/42/42 (*)	54/55/53 (*)
2	EPA combined	42	54
3	EPA MPGe	106	133

* - These three numbers are not found at Fuel Economy nor on the Monroney sticker. Worse, C/D omitted the MPGe.

I have ridden with people who are bi-polar drivers: max acceleration or max brake. Besides motion sickness, riding makes me grateful for seat belts. In contrast, I'm more of a smooth, quiet, efficient car which is the Prius Prime.

Bob Wilson

ps. I was unable to share this comment in the Car and Driver comment forum:

Where did the Volt "43/42/42" and Prius Prime "54/55/53" mileage numbers come from? I could not find them in either Fuel Economy nor the Monroney sticker.

Curiously Car and Driver left out the EPA electrical efficiency which for the Volt "106 MPGe" and Prime "133 MPGe". Instead, posting a "C/D 150-MILE TRIP", an invented test with no basis of estimate. Do Car and Driver readers only drive 150 miles on each drive?

A Prius is not for everyone, some people are bi-polar drivers who alternate between max gas and max brake. Others like quiet, efficient cars and won't be wasting money on a Volt.
​

 

Passing when the car approaching in the opposite direction is estimated to be only 7 seconds away is dangerous and stupid. It is only ~ 1260 feet if both cars are traveling at 60 mph

 

That has got to be one of the worst car reviews I've EVER seen from C&D. It was unprofessional and usually they have good (mostly) honest reviews. He never even considered that he was driving a Prius, one of the most fuel efficient cars.

I gotta say the Volt is a better Plug in, but not a better car. Prius Prime is at least gonna run for the next 10 years!

 

Where I come from the speed limit on a two lane is 70 mph

You do realize that's not how it works, right? You don't pull out then automatically get 7 seconds to pass because that's how long it takes to get to 70. If you're only going 5 mph faster than a hypothetical 18 wheeler that you're passing, it's going to take you more like 12 seconds to get by him. If this trucker is moving at 50 and you want to go the speed limit of 70 (without exceeding it) you'll be out in that lane somewhere between 3 and 15 seconds minimum. In the Prius it's likely to be near the higher end of that due to its slow 50 - 70 mph time. In my Charger, without taking it out of overdrive, the 50 - 70 mph is more around 2.5 seconds meaning that car is going to be much closer to the 3 second time than the Prius. IMO on two lane roads the Prius is verging on dangerous when it comes to passing and in very general terms I don't do it in the Prius. I believe the Prime is slower at 50 - 70 than the standard Gen 4 so I would be even less likely to do it. But hey, stay behind the trucker get some excellent MPGs for a bit and wait for the next passing lane or super long straight. It's not a big deal. Just keep an eye out for the Charger blasting by you.

 

My idea of safe passing is - daytime, dry, clear visibility at least about 1/2 mile (roughly 30 seconds) with no oncoming traffic

If there is oncoming traffic then I want a bit more than 1/2 mile to allow for the fact that I can't judge the speed of the oncoming car.

If I have to whip my Viper around someone in 10 seconds because of oncoming traffic or limited visibility I think that is unsafe regardless of my V10 engine.

I agree if the car in front of me is going 10mph slower than the speed limit, I just tough it out until there is a passing lane.

 

If the difference between 3 and 7 seconds matters, I wouldn't pass. I don't pass on a two lane unless I know I'm going to clear any cars coming my way by at least a quarter of a mile. This is regardless of whether I'm in my Prius or my turbo Mazda.

I've never made a close pass in a Prius where it's performance mattered. I have I the Mazda which means I shouldn't have tried it. People who make agressive or close passes just barely clearing oncoming traffic deserve to have one car accidents.

 

Once again, it's not a difference of 3 and 7 seconds. It's more along the lines of the difference between 3 and 15 seconds. In the example @Since2002 provided his 1/2 mile of clearance will have passed by the time you reach the upper limit of that range (both him and the approaching car at 70 mph, that half mile is gone in about 13 seconds).

 

A 10 mph speed delta is about 15 feet a second.
A truck is about 20 feet long.

Passing a single truck in a Prime is not a problem if the car approaching in the opposite direction is 10+ seconds away. Trying to pass multiple trucks in one go is a different story unless the road is clear for a LONG way ahead. I personally gain some speed in the truck's lane before I pull out to pass. Just another advantage of not tail-gating.

 

If your car goes from 50 to 70 in 3 seconds, you'll only net 44 feet in that time. That isn't enough room to pass anyone. You need to net around 300 feet to pass someone. To do that by going from 50 to 70 in 3 seconds and holding 70, you'll need about 11.7 seconds to make the pass. In a Prius, I'll need 13.7 seconds to make the same pass the same way.

 

Yeah, if someone apparently wants to pass, but is just tailing, I'll do that too: make an effort to get them by efficiently.

Still, the maneuver I was describing was when someone is in the process of passing, again, trying to facilitate things, get them ahead of you and safe as fast as possible. Maybe you misunderstood me, and maybe @Prius Maximus too:

I brake when cars are in the process of passing me, when they're abreast, on the far side of the road. And I flash headlights when they're suffiently clear in front to get back to the right.

Edit: red bit rewritten.

 

I learned this technique driving a 1966 VW MicroBus (1500 cc, ~50 hp.)

Following from a safe distance, I am OK if there is on-coming traffic with a significant gap in the following traffic. I back off and time maximum acceleration in my lane so I'm overtaking about the time the lead vehicle passes. I then pull into the opposite lane, much faster than the vehicle I'm passing. Within seconds, I'm back in my lane and return to my cruise speed.

Those of us who grew up with low-power cars learn now to drive strategic (i.e., crafty.)

Bob Won