Chevrolet Volt tops Sierra Club ranking of plug-in hybrids

Let's see: Volt - $7,00 tax-credit - free charging = ???

DBCassidy

 

Why yes, you have moved the goal posts John as many have pointed out. You said it was about relative sales. The relative sales of the prius phv has fallen well behind your or toyota's expectations, so you wish to keep putting up the same garbage comments and not answering questions. Do you not think that Toyota seeing this will move in the direction of the volt and put a bigger battery in the phv? Do you think that customers want an 11 mile range?

blah, blah, crap.

Gen I prius never exceeded 30,000 units. Prius phv is far behind its intro numbers. What is this false yardstick that the volt needs a redesign after 3 years. Is it because you have failed at all your predictions and want to spew the same non-sense. 60,000 per year is not realistic for these initial adopter cars. Toyota isn't even shooting for 3000/year on its bevs. Tesla is profitable at 20,000 per year. The volt/ampera did 30,000 last year. That is plenty to cover their variable costs and invest in a redesign. There is also no reason to rush a redesign, until they see what bmw has done with the i3, and how people react to it.

Initial adopter vehicles! Multiple generations needed for profitability. Is that so hard to understand.

In the US hybrids make up what 1% of vehicles on the road. These things take time. I don't think hybrids without plugs really will ever get more than 10% of the us market. Toyota is patient. It took them a decade for the hybrid to be successful. You need to relax John, realize that these plug-ins are initial adopter cars. Be patient like toyota was with the prius. You seem to have the same arguments against the volt as lutz did against the prius. Stop being a Lutz.

Well why don't you tell us? You seem to know what GM is thinking. You must have acess to their board meetings otherwise you would not spend so much time with them.

What battery size must toyota have for their next generation phev?

 

Why don't you let john answer.

I have not heard any press release about the NS4 being green lighted. Toyota would typically do this if it was going to have the car out within 2 years. They have had press releases about green lighting their 2015 fuel cell car for the last 3 years.

 

Since I repost the hybrid dashboard report summaries for the past four months, these comments apply to the 'sales separators' I've been inserting:

Looking at the past four months of Hybrid Dashboard reports, three groups stand out because of the gaps 'my lying eyes' see:

• 183,960-149,184 :: Prius hatchback sales
  • 149,184-53532 :: bandgap
• 53,532-32,376 :: middle group, serious numbers
  • 32,376-25,200 :: bandgap
• 25,200-1 :: low group; high priced luxury, demos, new models, dying on the vine

I'm now looking at finding an algorithm to define these groups. But like most humans, I too can see patterns in random data and these groupings may be an artifact of variables not yet identified. A math problem, I'll be discussing it in the subsequent Dashboard report summaries.

John eventually realized something I figured out several days earlier. The thread has wandered off and lacks enough new facts and data to be worth following. Given the subject line and what has happened to 'diesel' news postings, I'm a little surprised this thread remains here instead being moved to "Other cars" area but it isn't my call.

It is a lot easier to 'unwatch' this thread and scan the summaries a couple of days later. My life is busy enough and I just got a 'house call' to help another Prius owner in Huntsville. <grins>

Bob Wilson

 

You have to understand John is the one moving it off topic, and he refuses to answer question, but I will continue to point out why his comments are in correct. He seems to think the volt needs to sell 5K/month or must be updated immediately, while a prius phv is great at under half the volume and wildly successful.

Although your question is also off topic about the volt being the sierra clubs choice of phev, I will hapily answer it as best I can.

Hey bob,
From my modeling days, it often is easier to graph then model then impose the model with software. I haven't even graphed the information but a quick look at June seems to put a natural between the c-max and sonata. There are no natural breaks at the tail though, so I would do it by percentage.

First group average >2500/month (30,000/year)(prius is an outlier, that could be its own group, but won't teach us much)
One interesting thing is all of these are 2nd+ generation volt and leaf creap in some months but not on average.

Second group average > 400 month (4800/year)(goes down to the hihy or jetta hybrid, your judgement) these sell in serious numbers, but need something in the next generation to get over the hump

Third group average <400 month. Again I am fairly arbitrary on this number. These are either cars that failed, demo cars, or cars whose hybrid systems need work. All of the flagship hybrids are in this group - Escalade, Activehybrid7, LSh, S400h. There may be marketing reasons to keep these low sellers around.

That means my quick and dirty eyeballing is about the same as yours. I just would add a lower break. Many of those in the second group have potential. Some in the third group are simply proofs of concept, that have potential in the next generation. Many in these groups have no real potential, and are dying.

There is the other slice. The prius liftback is a cash cow. The LSh is a dog, the prius c is a star, if we look at the old 4 quadrant marketing chart. All of the plug-ins are in early stages and likely need work on the next generation. The tesla S is a star even though it belongs in the second group in terms of sales.

 

What you mean john actually answers questions , especially that don't show Toyota Superiority? I' sorry I missed that.
I though he just asked questions to produce FUD and play the troll. I figured Trollbait at least was owed some answer and want the thread to have some answer, since its unlikely there is anything real behind Johns statement. Since John ignores me I figured it would not hurt maybe he will give his answer anyhow.

 

Because it is news about a hybrid, EV, or alt fuel vehicle, and the Sierra Club's covers all makes on models of interest.

The other cars forum does get under utilized, though, and some threads, like the new Rav4 one, should go there.