Commentary: Toyota Corolla Hybrid ad brags about not plugging in

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by Marine Ray, Feb 17, 2019.

  1. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    I think that HFC has potential for long-haul trucking, possibly for trains, and maybe even for airplanes, but it’s really-iffy at best for passenger cars, SUVs, pickups, or short-haul trucking.

    iPad ? Pro
     
  2. KrPtNk

    KrPtNk Active Member

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    The hybrid Corolla has an mpg number that is equivalent to they 4th generation Prius, excluding the “eco” model. What will distinguish the two models? Is Toyota leaving the Prius to those who are accepting of the model’s eco status and trying to expand the hybrid market to those not inclined to ever consider buying one.

    If so, the reason for the continuation of the Prius has to be more obvious than just great mileage. It has to include more.
     
  3. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Open Letter To Toyota USA: Go All In On The Prius Prime, Kill The Regular Prius Hybrid | PriusChat
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Attacking BEVs is going to do nothing to convince the majority in ICE cars to buy a hybrid.

    Long haul trucking and trains should just switch to natural gas. There is already an expansive infrastructure for it, converting existing engines is feasible, burns cleaner than gasoline in an engine, solid oxide fuel cells can use it directly, can be made renewably, and it is where all the hydrogen will come from anyway.

    Unless airplane also includes lighter than air craft, I don't see hydrogen working. The tanks are heavy. Say 5kg of hydrogen will fly a plane for the same amount as 10 gallons of gas. Switching means replacing a fuel system that is well under 100 pounds for one over 200, and is mostly dead weight that can't be dumped if needed. Liquid hydrogen would take up less weight, but has greater inefficiencies in production, and introduces fuel loss to venting.
     
  5. KrPtNk

    KrPtNk Active Member

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  6. noonm

    noonm Senior Member

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    It might not seem special but having moved from Seattle to a mass transit wasteland a little over a year ago, I'm definitely missing those green and yellow King County metro buses.

    Planes are the last part of the transportation puzzle that doesn't have a clear, sustainable alternative. The closest is drop-in jetfuel sourced from bio-feedstock such as soy, jatropha or algal oil.
     
  7. EyePrime

    EyePrime Active Member

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    MASS TRANSIT IS HORRIBLE IN OTTAWA.
    I live in the Kanata area of Ottawa and bus routes r always delayed no questions asked and is one of the largest suburbs they dont plan on bringing mass transit or Light Rail to us so government workers and many others cant get to downtown efficiently. (I admit I like the double deckers)
    When they add their "world-class system" that's been delayed 3 going on to 4 times my trip to work will be 10 minutes longer, having to transfer onto a train and walk a lot more. And many others as shown in this videoNew app shows changes to routes when LRT launches | CTV News Ottawa
     
  8. EyePrime

    EyePrime Active Member

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    Does anyone think/feel that Toyota representatives look at these forums;)o_O
     
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  9. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    I was thinking kinda the same: in short, not likely, but not impossible though.
     
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  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  11. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Indeed, bio-fuels are the most likely approach, and IIRC Virgin Atlantic already does some of that.
     
  12. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    There were some Toyota North America folks occasionally reading and sometimes chiming in a very long time ago, such as when I joined. But I haven't noticed them in a long time, and can't find their team login name just now.
     
    #32 fuzzy1, Feb 19, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Renewable fuels don't have to bio-based. We can make them by essentially performing the hydrogen reformation process in reverse; water + CO2 + electricity = hydrocarbons. The renewable part depends on the electricity source.

    Audi has plant pilot plants doing this. One makes methane, and other a synthetic petroleum(IIRC, they call it blue crude). That syncrude is sulfur free and light weight, making it cheaper and easier to refine into diesel, though power plants, and likely ships, can use it as is. Gasoline requires more energy to refine. Audi was partnered with a biotech company to develop some organism to make it.
     
  14. noonm

    noonm Senior Member

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    Its possible, but my understanding is that existing pathways for non-bio/non-fossil hydrocarbons are 1) super inefficient, 2) really expensive and 3) no where near the scale needed to fulfill aviation demand. GMO bacteria/yeast is probably the closest to solving the first two issues. However, if you want non-fossil aviation fuel in a Green New Deal/10 year time frame, the most likely option at scale is a plant-oil derived drop-in jet fuel.
     
  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    For 1, hydrogen is also super inefficient to make renewably. Making hydrocarbons has a big cost advantage over it in that the distribution infrastructure is already in place. That is an advantage over some biofuels too.

    Bio-based still is expensive for many paths, and those feasible today have land use and other environmental impact issues. For any renewables to reach 100% replacement, we need most users of fossil fuels to switch to mostly using the grid. Then reduced demand makes the cost increases for renewable more tolerable. In the case of aviation fuel, moving trucks, trains, and home heating to some other source, even another fossil fuel will lower overall diesel demand.
     
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