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engine tapping, low mpg

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Rickame, Apr 16, 2018.

  1. Rickame

    Rickame Junior Member

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    2006 Prius with 190k, was running great, then engine tapping about a week ago. Sounds like valve/lifter tapping from top of engine, but understand from reading it could be many different things:) Also notice lower mpg (around 30 vs 40) and lack of engine pep but still runs ok, and seems like hybrid battery not charging as much (haven't seen green lately). Did a Seafoam treatment (1/2 in oil, 1/2 in gas), then oil change, then some Restore engine restorer with oil recommended by AutoZone guy only about 50 miles ago (so maybe still some hope). But tapping continues. It is first noticed on start up and increases with acceleration, but don't hear much when on highway (but I imagine its there but fast and with other road noice, don't really notice). Any and all suggestions appreciated...I'll bring to my local mechanic to see if he can assess, but like to avoid dealer at all cost. Could it be plugs, coil, injectors, engine timing high ECM computer, or PWM or EGR valve...Thats the whole list of what I've stumbled across reading threads, and maybe one or none. And last, I got a check engine light after a few days of the tapping. It was codes P1151 (coolant heat storage tank outlook temp lower than acceptable during preheat or recovery) which said that the ECM computer may need to be reprogrammed, which makes no sense to me, but who knows if could be related. The check engine light went out on the next ride and has not returned. ...OK so advice, guidance, steps to take..posted in general but no reply, so trying here. Thanks, Rick
     
  2. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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  3. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    You have this posted in 2 different forums.

    I suspect your hybrid battery is failing.

    Your engine is tapping because it has a big load on it as its now powering the car with very little help from the hybrid battery. Engine was not really designed to solely power the car. When the hybrid battery fails people still demand the same "pep" and power it used to have so they push the car harder to produce that. The engine complains....very loudly. Instead of taking it as easy as you can because the electric motors are no longer contributing to the power.

    If your battery tanks to purple bars in a drive thru and takes forever to get 2 blue bars in it it's getting very tired. First hint is mileage tanks.
    Because the engine is basically doing all the work. I assume its the original battery?

    Failed Hybrid battery is the #1 post in the G2 forum right behind the mystery's of the 12 volt battery.
     
    #3 edthefox5, Apr 16, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  4. Rickame

    Rickame Junior Member

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    I sent a note to delete the other post to remove the duplicate.
    Thanks much for this info and thoughts..not good news if its really the hybrid battery, but good to know. Yes I believe its the original battery...I have had it for almost 2 years and 50k, got at about 140k, now at 190k...no real problems at all (new 1st front break replacements and a 12v battery). I am bringing to a dealer on Thursday where I feel they are fairly smart and fairly honest, and for an hour of labor I should (hope I) know. Can you tell me if it really is the hybrid battery, and I understand the reduced MPG and strain on the gas motor are signs, what reason there may be for the tapping being present from the very start up of the car, before there is much strain on the engine, even when I have mostly blue bars showing. Just still trying to be logical in diagnosing, but I do imagine the dealer can tell me if its really the hybrid batter going....you think?
     
  5. tpenny67

    tpenny67 Active Member

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    This statement doesn't pass my sniff tester. With a good battery, the ICE runs at high load (torque) at as low an RPM as possible already, with the battery adding additional power only after the ICE has already reached it's maximum output. A bad battery might cause higher RPMs (due to a futile attempt to charge it) and you won't have the extra boost at full power, but it can't increase the engine load beyond the normal maximum.

    Also, a properly functioning engine working at full load should not be making tapping noises! If the noise really is coming from under the valve cover, it could be slop in the valve train which means the corresponding valves aren't opening fully thus you get tapping and reduced engine power.
     
  6. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    If theirs no dash light alerting you too a malfunction in the engine then its strictly mechanical and the engine monitoring systems do not notice any out of bounds condition.

    The valve train is pretty tough mechanically and not alot of posts about issues with it. Lots of complaints about valve noise because the valve train is so noisy as it doesn't use hydraulic lifters. The engine valve noise always annoyed me since i bought it new so I use a higher quality engine oil that has a ZDDP package that has reduced the noise considerably. Its 5-30 that at operating temperature is essentially a 40 weight oil.

    Which leads me to ask how have you treated the engine? Do you push it hard all the time? And how have you been on the oil? Hope your not running 0-20 weight.

    At 190K miles its probably eating oil and have you ever ran the engine so low on oil it turned on the red exclamation point on the dash?

    If the car lives on dino oil you may want to inspect the VVT oil filter for sludge. Especially if it gets the oil changed at the dealer.

    I wouldn't waste my time and money at the dealer. They will want to do a valve lifter (bucket) inspection and will rape you. The $$ quote they will give you to repair it will shock you. Its a big job the camshafts have to come out to get to the buckets. Why don't you make a video of it. Put the car in inspection mode and make a video.

    And after you go through all of that you are still looking at a 12 year old hybrid battery.
     
    #6 edthefox5, Apr 17, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
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  7. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    [
    LOL.

    When a G2 hybrid battery is depleted to say even 1 or 2 purple bars or no bars at all it is so anemic you almost have to floor it to get going in traffic. And when you do the engine screams notably I can hear the valve train complaining the most.

    The hybrid battery contributes power across the entire power band. It does not come on when the engine reaches its maximum output. The battery is constantly supplying power and being constantly charged. You can clearly see that on the MFD battery arrows.

    The car is pretty worthless without a healthy battery.
     
    #7 edthefox5, Apr 17, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  8. tpenny67

    tpenny67 Active Member

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    I think your post above about the valve train issues is spot on, and will stop nit-picking your use of the word "load" :)

    At two bars, the G3 ICE also revs a lot, and my scan gauge shows that it's putting a significant amount of power back into the battery (20-ish amps, ~4 kW). Add in the smaller engine and solid lifters in the G2, and I can see where you get a lot noises that might be described as tapping. Once the battery is back up to 4 bars, the scan gauge generally shows <10 amps in or out unless you floor it or are in stealth mode.