HV Battery Disconnect

Discussion in 'Prius v Technical Discussion' started by Steve48, Jul 13, 2020.

  1. Steve48

    Steve48 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020
    23
    7
    0
    Location:
    Clermont, FL
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    III
    I've read here and in Toyota technical literature that the HV battery is completely disconnected from the rest of the system except when the Ready light is on. However, if I go to "ON" mode (Ready light off), the AC compressor runs from the HV battery. Also, if the HV battery charge gets too low, the engine will start, even though the Ready light is still off. Clearly, there is something here that I don't understand.
     
  2. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    2,045
    843
    1
    Location:
    Texas Hill Country
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    One press (accessories) or two presses (on) of the start button without the brake applied keeps the hv off using a power relay inside the hv battery module. However with two presses the ac interior blower comes on running on the separate 12v battery. The ac compressor does not run because it has no hv power from the inverter which has no power from the hv battery. At some point in this mode the 12v to the accessories and the ac blower will shutoff unless you manually go to Ready.

    On the other hand, when its in Ready, the ac compressor will run to cool the cabin. It can do this without the engine until the hv battery has been significantly depleted. At that point, while in Ready, the engine will automatically start to partially charge the hv battery. This cycle will continue as long as there is gas to periodically run the engine.

    There used to be a company that sold a hv inverter that would take the 201vdc battery power and generate 120 vac. This essentially made a Prius a low noise highly efficient standby generator, useful for power failures at the house. Of course the car would have to be left in Ready mode so that the engine could recharge the hv battery.
     
    #2 rjparker, Jul 13, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
    Steve48, Air_Boss and Tim Jones like this.
  3. Steve48

    Steve48 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020
    23
    7
    0
    Location:
    Clermont, FL
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    III
    Thank you. Apparently what I wrote above is incorrect (senior moment). With two button presses I get to "ON" mode, but the AC compressor does not run and the engine does not start.

    However, If I stay in this mode too long, the 12 volt battery bus can go too low before the system automatically shuts off. (The car and 12 volt battery are getting a little old.) In that case, the system will refuse to go to Ready mode. I think this explains what happened to me a couple of weeks ago.
     
  4. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    2,045
    843
    1
    Location:
    Texas Hill Country
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    That could happen using the On mode if it did a 12v shutdown and the system was not totally shutoff or put in Ready mode at that time. The computers are still powered up and waiting rather than going into an extreme low power sleep mode.

    By the way, there are at least two ways to drain the 12v even when the car is properly shutdown. One is the rear hatch if not completely closed. There is a bulb on the left side of the hatch that will stay on. It is not automatically shutdown like the other lights. I changed it to a led equivalent. The light also has a manual off position. Another problem is the headlight system if you shutdown and then manually turn them on. At that point the headlights can run the 12v down.

    As it turns out the 12v battery does not have to supply much current to “start” the car since all it does is wake up the controls. A Prius 12v battery can last for many more years than a conventional car’s battery. But it can and will run down quickly if some lights are left on, even if its new, primarily because it is a low amp hour battery.

    As you may know, when the 12v is dead, the hatch won’t work so knowing how to jump it from the engine fuse box is important. Perhaps the best plan is to keep a small lithium powered jump pack in the passenger compartment. I keep one under the passenger seat to ensure it is accessible. Make sure to buy one that can supply power if the car battery is totally flat. Most require a special button push to override protection features. I like the Noco brand. I find their smallest GB40 works fine. Just be sure to add a calendar item to recharge it twice a year.



     
    #4 rjparker, Jul 14, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
    Tim Jones likes this.
  5. Steve48

    Steve48 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020
    23
    7
    0
    Location:
    Clermont, FL
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    III
    Thanks, again.

    The situation that occurred on my Prius was a couple of weeks ago. I'd been sitting in the parking lot in On mode, waiting for my wife. When she arrived, the car wouldn't go to Ready mode. The green light on the power button came on, but the car wouldn't go to Ready despite several tries, including shutting it all the way off and trying again. I finally just shut it down and waited a couple of minutes, and then it started. All this seems to be consistent with me running the 12 volt bus low by running the blower, and the battery recovering after a couple of minutes rest.

    On that same topic, I notice that my owner's manual says that an emergency procedure to get to Ready mode is to go to ACC mode, then press and hold the power button for 15 seconds. (Wish I'd known that during my little incident!) What exactly happens if you follow this procedure?
     
  6. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    646
    273
    3
    Location:
    SE Texas
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    LE AWD-e
    I like the Noco brand. I find their smallest GB40 works fine. Just be sure to add a calendar item to recharge it twice a year.
    I just ordered one of these.
     
  7. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    2,045
    843
    1
    Location:
    Texas Hill Country
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    I have been in your "Parking Lot" waiting situation in the past and my car just shutoff the 12v with no subsequent issues going to Ready. However I know if I did not either shut it down all the way or go into Ready right away, the 12v battery would have continued to drain. I suspect you simply have a worn out 12v battery that really drops fast, faster than mine. So I would certainly get a new12v battery first and foremost. Most auto supply stores can load test it and will usually have a reasonably priced replacement. Many of them will install it for you.

    I am not sure what happens in the ACC override mode but my guess is that it forces the car into Ready on an emergency basis even with other significant problems (other than a flat 12v battery).
     
  8. Steve48

    Steve48 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020
    23
    7
    0
    Location:
    Clermont, FL
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    III
    Agreed.

    Sounds right, but I know this will drive me crazy until I understand it better. For example, will it work with the 12 volt almost flat, but with just enough oomph to close the HV contactors? It's interesting the things you start to learn after having an issue.
     
  9. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    2,045
    843
    1
    Location:
    Texas Hill Country
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    I found one reference that stated the ACC Ready method will bypass the brake actuation switch requirement. So a bad brake switch or relay could be bypassed.
     
  10. Steve48

    Steve48 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020
    23
    7
    0
    Location:
    Clermont, FL
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    III
    Interesting. My Owner's Manual definitely says that the brake pedal should be firmly depressed when using this method, but it doesn't go so far as to say that the method won't work if you don't.
     
  11. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    2,045
    843
    1
    Location:
    Texas Hill Country
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    I tried ACC Mode with no brake and it went into Ready after ~12 seconds of holding the power button down. I doubt it would work with an excessively low 12 v.

    Here is a way to monitor the 12v voltage from the screen.
    Prius v Display Audio Service Menu w Battery Check | PriusChat
     
    Steve48 likes this.
  12. Steve48

    Steve48 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020
    23
    7
    0
    Location:
    Clermont, FL
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    III
    That's great info. I'll try that as soon as I get a chance.
     
  13. Steve48

    Steve48 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020
    23
    7
    0
    Location:
    Clermont, FL
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    III
    So I tried it. What a great utility!

    When I got to it, 12 volts read 12.4 but dropped soon to 12.2.
    Then I turned on the headlights and it dropped to 11.9.
    Then I went to ready mode and it climbed quickly to 14.3.

    That seems to confirm that the 12 V battery is struggling a bit, and the charging circuit is working fine. Time to look for a new battery.
     
  14. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    2,045
    843
    1
    Location:
    Texas Hill Country
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    If the 12v battery is original I would shop around and get a new one. Technically its a little different than a typical car battery under a hood. Its smaller, it lives inside, it has a vent hose and its an agm battery. I have seen them for about $150. You might read about Optima batteries but some of us don’t like them because of cheap terminals that break.

    6787355E-3C88-441E-9039-E90233313DF7.jpeg
     
  15. Steve48

    Steve48 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020
    23
    7
    0
    Location:
    Clermont, FL
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    III
    Yikes. Pretty proud of them, aren't they? :)
     
Loading...