Hybrid battery life, must use, and other myths

Discussion in 'Newbie Forum' started by coach81, Oct 28, 2012.

  1. coach81

    coach81 Active Member

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    Please confirm or correct the following myths or truths about Hybrid vehicles.

    1. "you have to replace the battery around year 5, and it will cost at least 5-7 thousand dollars".

    2. "You have to drive it almost every day or the battery will die/car won't start".

    Any others???
     
  2. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    The HV battery seems to last about 300,000 miles and costs about $2,000 for parts and labor. Remanufactured Hybrid Vehicle Battery Packs

    The 12 volt battery seems to last about 5 years, and costs under $200 to replace. Optima DS46B24R Optima battery direct fit replacement for Prius 2004 + with Instructions

    The Fob battery seems to last about 5 years and costs about $2 to replace. Energizer-Eveready 04096 - 3 Volt Lithium Button Cell Watch Battery (ECR1632BP (CR1632)) - Amazon.com

    For the 12 volt battery, every 3 weeks or you need a trickle charger.

    For the HV Battery every 3 months is Toyota's conservative recommendation.
     
  3. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    1. Total bull. See Lifespan/Operating costs - Prius Wiki and Failed traction (HV) battery, what to do? - Prius Wiki. The HV batteries on AT-PZEV hybrids (e.g. Prius) are warranted for 8 years/100K mile in most states and 10 years/150K miles in CA and CARB states. It's annoying that this anti-hybrid crap still lives on, from people who don't own them. You can see thist warranty by selecting 2009+ Prius from the upper right of Toyota Online Owners Manuals and Technical Manuals and downloading the warranty booklet.

    2. Complete bull as well. Yeah, the 12 volt will get low if the car isn't driven much due to self-discharge and parasitic drain from the car. I've left my car unattended and not driven for 3 weeks when I was away in Europe. A friend took me there in my car and picked me up in it. (I believe I intentionally disabled the smart key system via button under steering column to reduce the drain. I always do this before going on a long trip. The button's gone on the Gen 3 Prius.)

    I've gone on other trips that were 2 weeks long or so and my car wasn't driven. There was no issue.

    2010 II 12 Volt Battery Dead After 17 Days of Parking | PriusChat has a TSB containing Toyota's recommendations.

    Jimbo's figures are about right. I bought my 06 Prius new in January '06. I'm still on the original HV battery. I changed my 12 volt in Feb '11 as it was starting to become marginal.
     
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  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    As others pointed out, there are three types of batteries and the 12V and FOB batteries run about 5 years. But the main traction battery has three styles:
    1. 2001-03 - first generation traction battery used in ~54,000 NHW11s. The ones in hot climates, hilly and mountainous areas, and driven at high speeds 70-75 mph tend to suffer failures from weak terminals. However, when kept cool and driven conservatively, we do not know their end-of-life. When they do fail, it tends to be over a 3-6 month interval. A $2,000 replacement with a rebuilt using next generation traction batteries done by skilled shops means an accident is more likely to take out the car. There are 38 modules in these 1.5L Prius, batteries.
    2. 2004-09 - second generation traction battery used in ~900,000 NHW11s have lower internal resistance from two current paths and much stronger terminals. The recycled batteries from these crash Prius are meeting the 2001-03 Prius traction battery replacements as well as the very, infrequent 2004-09 failures. We have not seen enough 2004-09 traction battery failures to see any patterns . . . seriously, an accident will make them available for recycling sooner than one fails. As a general rule, ~3% of the USA fleet is lost to accidents each year and the Prius appears to have half that rate based upon fatal accident analysis. Only 28 modules are used in these 1.5L Prius traction batteries.
    3. 2010-current - I understand these modules have been further improved with even lower internal resistance (less heat.) Heat is the enemy of all batteries but these are especially strong in this area. Only 28 modules are used in the 1.8L Prius and only 20 modules in the 1.5L model.
    These newer model traction batteries are recycled by building refurbished batteries for the older NHW11s, about 45,000 remaining in service. Those not used in rebuilt traction batteries can be turned into "Batteries Plus" for recycling into new, NiMH batteries.
    Only the 12V battery needs charging due to powering the keyless entry receiver and keeping the memory of some of the control computers running. A solar or line trickle charger is a great addition although some folks knowing the car is going to be off simply disconnect the ground.

    Only with the 10 year old, 2001-03, compact 1.5L Prius, the first to be sold in North America. The current, compact 1.5L 'Prius c' is priced the same as its 10 year old grandfather but with these improvements:
    Column 1 Column 2 Column 3 Column 4
    0 [th]2001-03[th]Prius c[th]performance[tr][td]13.0 sec[td]11.3 sec[td]0-60 mph time[tr][td]$19-24 000[td]$19-24 000[td]original price[tr][td]$1 000[td]$0[td]est. annual repair cost/year[tr][td]41 MPG[td]50 MPG[td]EPA rating[tr][td]45.4 MPG[td]52.5 MPG[td]25 and 23 owner reports[tr][td]compact[td]compact[td]EPA style[tr][td]89/12 ft{3}[td]87/17 ft{3}[td]passenger/luggage volume
    Source: Fuel Economy

    Only if you are considering the 10 year old, 2001-03 Prius, please visit this forum and scan the threads. This will be your best source for the weaknesses of that particular model as they reach +10 years and over 150,000 miles on their original brake pads and shoes. Of course non-hybrid cars are perfect 10 years later with over 150,000 miles . . . yeap, and they are only driven by Morgan Fairchild.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  5. coach81

    coach81 Active Member

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  6. GrumpyCabbie

    GrumpyCabbie Senior Member

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    I disagree. The op is 100% correct.

    The hybrid battery will explode at year 5 and is so expensive the car has to be scrapped. The Prius doesn't get the claimed mpg's and you'd be better buying a Jeep instead - far more environmentally friendly.

    Erm, what else? Oh yeah, you have to be a complete nerd or totally gay to drive a Prius and preferably both.

    Well it's what the 'anti's' want you to believe and I've realised that however hard you try to challenge their fud, you'll never convince them.
     
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  7. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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  8. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Moderator
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    *** Mod note: Sorry, had to move this out of the News forum. This isn't news, and did not need to be featured in the main page of PriusChat.com. Please ensure you're using the correct forum when posting. ***
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it was news to me.:cool:
     
  10. jstraw20

    jstraw20 Member

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    Here's a new one that was tossed in my direction while I was defending the Prius in a comment section attached to one of Stan Ovshinsky's obits: The MG's tend to burn out. Never heard that one before :LOL:
     
  11. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    There is some truth to that, Toyota has no scheduled time to replace the transaxle fluid. It eventually gets suspended metals which can short the windings in the Motor/Generators. I recommend you change the ATF WS at 30,000 miles then every 60,000 miles after that. This is not a service the dealership is often asked for, so be firm and polite. Once they see the black mess that came out, they argue less that it was uneeded.
     
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  12. Zoltani

    Zoltani Junior Member

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    115,000 on my 2005 Toyota Prius. The hybrid battery just failed. Thankfully, it still had three (3) months remaining under California warranty, i.e., 10 years or 150,000 miles; whichever comes first. Toyota Motor Company USA picks up the entire tab for diagnosis, labor, and part. I checked with Toyota in Torrance, CA and confirmed that California is the "only" state with the aforementioned warranty. Purchasing a new Toyota hybrid in the other 49 states is an eight (8) year or 100,000 warranty; whichever comes first. If the hybrid battery had failed outside of warranty, it would have cost between $2,500 - $3,000 for an after-market hybrid battery with a four (4) year warranty. As it stands, the Toyota (original stock) hybrid battery comes with a one (1) year warranty. IMHO, it's worth the price of a one-way airline ticket to fly to California to make a purchase of a new hybrid for the next buy. In so doing, the buyer picks up an extra two (2) years and 50,000 miles beyond what buyers in the other 49 states can get. Toyota CS rep confirmed the logic … if the extra warranty is important.
     
  13. Zoltani

    Zoltani Junior Member

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    115,000 on my 2005 Toyota Prius. The hybrid battery just failed. Thankfully, it still had three (3) months remaining under California warranty, i.e., 10 years or 150,000 miles; whichever comes first. Toyota Motor Company USA picks up the entire tab for diagnosis, labor, and part. I checked with Toyota in Torrance, CA and confirmed that California is the "only" state with the aforementioned warranty. Purchasing a new Toyota hybrid in the other 49 states is an eight (8) year or 100,000 warranty; whichever comes first. If the hybrid battery had failed outside of warranty, it would have cost between $2,500 - $3,000 for an after-market hybrid battery with a four (4) year warranty. As it stands, the Toyota (original stock) hybrid battery comes with a one (1) year warranty. IMHO, it's worth the price of a one-way airline ticket to fly to California to make a purchase of a new hybrid for the next buy. In so doing, the buyer picks up an extra two (2) years and 50,000 miles beyond what buyers in the other 49 states can get. Toyota CS rep confirmed the logic … if the extra warranty is important.
     
  14. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Bad idea.
    The car registration in a non CARB compliant state makes the car ineligible.
    You can try to lie and defraud Toyota but I would not recommend it.

    You will also pay CA sales tax
     
  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Did you research the cost for a battery through Toyota, too?

    Also, even if you're out of warranty, worth a try to talk to Toyota. Even if they meet you half way on the expense, for example.
     
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  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    wow, i've never seen such an ill informed post.:eek: kinda matches the o/p.:p
     
  17. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Happy you could swing the free replacement.
    Actually (see my prior essay post: CARB Warranty Ins and Outs) there are about 10 states (check me this is by memory) CA, OR, MD, MA, NY, NJ, CT, RI, VT, ME that honor the CARB 10-yr warranty. Toyota does have complex rules which you did not exactly get correct.

    One thing is for sure, if you live in a CARB state, you need to purchase in a CARB state. For example, in 2012 we had a lot of CA buyers going to MD for Plug-in Prius due to much lower prices in MD. After that it gets complicated but buyers can ask for CARB warranty guidance we here will help.
     
  18. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    funny how things change.
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    where can i purchased?
     
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