Featured Hyundai IONIQ - Prius competitor?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by GasperG, Dec 8, 2015.

  1. Felt

    Felt Senior Member

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    I would point out that the Ioniq has most of a year on-road history in Europe and Asia. With one exception, on the Ioniq forum most owners are writing very favorable things about the vehicle. It will be interesting to see what changes are made in the US version.

    As a brand, I believe that Hyundai makes a very good car. Several neighbors have (non-Ioniq) Hyundai's and they all speak favorably of its ride, comfort, quality and the local dealership. In our town, I see almost as many Hyundai 4-door sedans as I do Toyota's.
     
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  2. Aaron Vitolins

    Aaron Vitolins Active Member

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    Hyundai does make great vehicles. And I bet the Ioniq will keep that trend going. Actually my grandparents always drove Lexus models, they had a LS,SC GX,LX,RX well they have actually switched to Hyundai now, with a Azera, and Genesis. Now all their siblings are starting to do they same. I'm a huge Lexus fan btw.

    Just wanted to make the point that they are wonderful vehicles that are just as good as Toyota products. I'm sorry but it's the truth.
     
  3. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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  4. Aaron Vitolins

    Aaron Vitolins Active Member

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    Hybrid synergy drive!
     
  5. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    us old timers forget we don't all talk the same talk.
    From PC a long ago;
    Acronyms and Abbreviations Glossary | PriusChat
    It's an oldie but a goodie. Hope that it comes in handy down the road .
    .
     
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  6. RCO

    RCO Senior Member

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    Not wishing to be rude, USA has the biggest market for Prius, but there are some countries that have both Prius and Hyundai. Just saying.... ;)
     
  7. RCO

    RCO Senior Member

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    You could in Hong Kong when I was there.
     
  8. Samprocat

    Samprocat Active Member

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    Black Market style...haha

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It isn't just a second motor. The stance of some Hyundai engineers is that a power split hybrid requires two over powered motors that raises the cost while a parallel system can use a right sized one. The traditional transmission costs more, but it is only a variation at most on the one being mass produced for traditional cars that aren't going to be unavailable in the near future. This is a cost reduction for the manufacturer. Hyundai's system replaces the torque converter on the step transmission in the Sonata hybrid.

    Toyota is a conservative company, and likes squeezing every penny they can out of an investment. Its why the Yaris and base Corolla still have a 4 speed automatic when everybody else has moved onto 6 speed or CVTs, and they still make hybrids with NiMH batteries.

    If the intended application for this system you are thinking of is the same as me, Ford feels a parallel system is the better option. This Lexus hybrid gear box could be something that started under the partnership of both companies, and Toyota doesn't want to let go.

    The US spec Ioniq and Niro are the ones that delete the 12 volt starter battery. Besides that, I expect most of the changes will be in the software. Hyundai now has nearly a years worth of data to optimize that from.
     
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  10. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    A Tesla Model S or X is not it's nearest competitor. That's a price league most potential Leaf customers can't afford to cross-shop. The Leaf's real competitors are also not just BEVs like the i3 but all plug-ins and many cross-shop these as we did.

    Any combination of individual factors can be used to formulate an educated guess on the "real" price and incentives for the Leaf. I would argue that Nissan's manufacturing costs for this long-in-the tooth generation have come down substantially and they have likely recouped much of the R&D costs being the #1 worldwide seller of BEVs.

    So, from a profit standpoint my suspicion is that they simply can afford to do it and that it's the most profitable balance of moving a certain number of units x profit margin. Not sure anyone outside of Nissan really knows their true profit margins. Then there's the CAFE argument among many other factors.

    A bit earlier - 2015 was the last time the Leaf was all sub-100 mile range - the Leaf picked up the 30 kWh battery for 2 of the 3 trims on the 2016 model for an EPA rated 107 miles (we've leased one of these since April 2016). Yes, there was a 24-kWh battery available still in 2016, but that's just an option thing.

    The 17 miles of additional EPA range will be important to a significant number of people just as the 24 -> 30kWh change was for the Leaf. How generous Hyundai is with their incentives will be key to produce the "real" price and determine how many of these move off dealer lots.

    Certainly many will also consider the better styling and newer safety and other features of the Hyundai. Then the new Leaf should follow in less than a year to again up the ante and again the match continues...

    Agree, Toyota is going to have to slash the out-the-door price of Liftbacks if they want to keep up any semblance of their historically robust sales of this line.
     
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  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I was thinking of the Bolt

    I wonder how much of an advantage using the same body as the hybrid will have for those incentives.
    Then the 200 mile Ioniq will arrive with the new Leaf. My next car being a BEV is looking more likely.:)
     
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  12. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Yeah he wanted non-Toyota vehicles.

    The Corolla's CVT has a fake step shift even in Drive. The most obvious is the "1st to 2nd". It's just a little blip to give the aural sense of a shift lol. Sure, whatever makes Joe Public more comfortable.

    I've asked some non-car people about my car and they don't even notice the CVT drone. Like you said, it's exaggerated and perpetuated by the journalists.

    Even the 2018 Camry Hybrid will have a manual mode with 6 virtual gears (add paddle shifters on SE models)
     
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  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    waiting for godot?:p
     
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  14. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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  15. GasperG

    GasperG Active Member

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    Yes, but this logic does not go through when you make PHEV out of your small one motor HEV. Do we know the power in electric mode of IONIQ PHEV? Where will the price be if they go with bigger 60 kW el. motor and more powerfull inverter?

    for PHEN Toyota needs:
    - bigger battery
    - charger
    - one-way clutch to use both motors (if more than 50 kW is needed)

    Hyundai needs:
    - bigger motor
    - more powerful inverter
    - bigger battery
    - charger
     
  16. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    Ioniq PHEV is 45 kW in electric mode.

    For comparison, Prius Prime is 68 kW.
     
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  17. Bluecar1

    Bluecar1 Member

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    you are welcome to come over to ioniqforum.com we have a few UK / European owner who used to drive gen2/3 Prius if you want to ask them anything

    to be honest drive train reliability is a concern of mine, in particular battery life as I do a lot of mileage, so far 9000 miles in 3 months with no issues on drive train, (media unit swap as a recall, condensation in headlight which is under investigation)

    I am due to have a service in a few weeks I might ask if them can tell me if there is any loss of capacity in the battery, would expect 1-2% due to mileage / power cycles through the pack
     
  18. farmecologist

    farmecologist Active Member

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    Just out of curiosity, what is the battery warranty in the UK? If I recall, you don't get the "lifetime" warrenty like the USA gets...correct?

    I know...I know...the USA "lifetime" warranty apparently doesn't cover battery degradation over time. However, I still feel it is valuable.
     
  19. Bluecar1

    Bluecar1 Member

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    we get 8 years / 125,000 mile warranty on the battery in the UK, no cost is available for a replacement battery yet

    mine is on a 4 year 24,000mile / year PCP deal, if I keep it 4 years at present mileage I will be close to the 125,000 mile warranty

    but with mine getting regular use and never left to allow the pack to drain I am wondering if that would have a positive or negative effect on the life of the pack? I mean that was part of the reason for coming over here as you guys know a lot more about what affect batteries etc in particular LiPo which some prius's use in the US, as well as hybrid power trains
     
  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The logic still applies. If the motors used by the Prime are the same as the gen4, why does the gen4 need that much power from them, if it could actually use it all? Maximize regen? If the Ioniq's EPA numbers pan out in the real world, then a larger motor needed for regen doesn't pan out.

    The Ionic PHEV will have a larger motor, which means a higher cost difference between it and the hybrid model. It also means the hybrid buyers aren't subsidizing the equipment cost for PHEV buyers.

    The Prime is direct drive in EV mode. The Ioniq PHEV will be going through the transmission, and choices in gear ratios could make up for the motor's lower output. That would negate some of the EV driving experience though.

    Before the gen4, the only Toyota hybrid we got with lithium was the PiP. Ford hybrids are probably the most common here for ones using lithium for non-plug in experience.