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Is it possible to turbocharged a gen2?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Dxta, Dec 27, 2017.

  1. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    I know a Prius isn't designed for performance, or something, but for fuel economy and all that.

    If for instance I'd want more power on a gen2, is it possible to add a turbo charger? Does anyone has link, or experience on that?

    Dxta
     
  2. MickyMatter

    MickyMatter Active Member

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    I doubt.
    1. The ICE of the gen2 is following the Atkinson Miller cycle with a compression ratio somewhat about 13:1, much more than a standard Otto engine. Now you want to press already compressed air into the cylinder to compress it much further. I would say that will heat up the engine much more, resulting in wear of the pistons and the cylinders and the valves and maybe problems with the ignition timing.
    2. The planetary gear adds the power of the ICE and the power of the two electric motors all together, while the ECU is controlling it. (Sorry for my English, I'm German.) For a proper function, these machines must be in balance. For example: If the engine is too strong, it could rotate the motor in the wrong direction, resulting in a not or backwards moving car.
    3. However the ECU would need an update. Otherwise a kick down would result in a power request of the ECU for 58 kW and not more (= P_max) even for a charged engine.
     
  3. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    You ask the craziest stuff.
     
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  4. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    Possible? Absolutely. In fact, on a NHW10 (Gen 0 or early Gen 1 depending on how you refer to it), someone's actually done it.

    It may well improve performance at moderate speeds, but probably won't do much for you at very high speeds, I'd guess.
     
  5. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    It is worth noting, it is not a kit; the author hand fabricated many parts and the parts he was able to source, came from cars never imported to the US. (I have no idea if they were ever imported to Lagos) He was surprised to find that much of the HP gain went to charging the HV battery.

    If you have given up on fuel economy, you could swap the engine out of a Toyota Echo for a 43% HP gain.

    Toyota NZ engine - Wikipedia
     
  6. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    It may be easier to use Vitz/Platz/Echo/Yaris 1.5 pistons and camshafts, as well, rather than the whole engine - note that the Prius ECU won't know what to do with the exhaust VVT-i, and it won't know that higher engine RPM is available (and it's only available when at very high vehicle speeds anyway).

    Interestingly, I've also heard of people using Prius pistons as a part to hop up Yarises (Yarii?) by getting higher compression - you'd want to stick to 98 RON or 93 AKI octane gasoline if you used Yaris camshafts, though, and even then knock may be a concern. It's definitely not a mod you'd want to combine with turbocharging, that's for sure.
     
  7. R-P

    R-P Active Member

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    I think someone did turbocharge the Gen2 for a while (not a PC member) and someone on here actually bought the turbocharger+kit on Ebay when it was later sold separately. And that person knew what he was doing so I actually have some faith he could get it to work. (Unlike me, I lack the knowledge to ever get that properly going).

    But this is all from memory. Doing some searches might find this thread (but still won't give you much info on how it ran with the turbo).
     
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  8. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

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    You probably mean this system: Blow Me. | PriusChat It’s only there to get the engine power back to stock when running the engine on hydrogen.

    Main question when turbocharging (or tuning) Prius engine is what you want. They did get it to accept boost pressure but engine did not produce any more power. If you could get the engine to produce more power (control unit to accept more power from engine) you still probably wouldn’t have more power from wheels. So only benefit would be to have more power in long uphill that would otherwise drain the hybrid battery. To get more power to wheels you would need even more work.
     
    #8 valde3, Jan 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  9. R-P

    R-P Active Member

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    Yes, that's the one. And he (Justdidit) did fiddle with it, as mentioned in this thread about a Gen3 with a turbo (edit: not a turbo, an electrical supercharger).

    Summary: its nigh on impossible (pretty much impossible). The computer in the Prius is so complicated with integration between petrol and electric motors, it is hardly possible to separate them.

    Maybe if you could start with a Prius and all its components and start programing the ECU from scratch, but who would want to do this knowing the original software was written by a team of dozens of people with countless hours of testing...
     
    #9 R-P, Jan 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  10. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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  11. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    You mean can't be sone , or some kind of...?

    Everything is damn possible!
     
  12. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    Swapping it from an echo for that power, what happens to the eCVT system?

    How would that fair?
     
  13. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    As regards the pistons, and maybe camshaft swap from an echo or so, I think some dudes in Indonesia, and a certain Latin American country have done something like that before. But in their case, they didn't use a turbo.
     
  14. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    Wanna thank everyone for their inputs.

    I know its something that would require countless hours to do. But I did ask, because I was curious if that can be done!

    Asides the computers, and electronics on the car that controls the eCVT, if as I started, MPG isn't much of a concern, I'd replace the eCVT with a conventional one, and maybe swap a yaris engine 1.5L in there. But doing that, would involve talking to the computer and all that. I do not ha e such competence in that.


    Thanks once again guys.
     
  15. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    1) This is why the guy i read about adding a turbo got better battery charging rather than Horsepower to the wheels.
    The engine can only push against M/G2 by also pushing against M/G1. When it does so M/G1 pushes back by making electricity. This add to M/G2's power both by the mechanical torque directly from the engine AND by the electrical charge from M/G1, which either has to go to M/G2 or the big battery.

    As I understand it, 71% of the engine torque will directly push against M/G2 and 29% will spin M/G1. Once 29% more torque exceeds M/G1s ability to generate Power, then no additional power will make it to the wheels.

    While this may limit peak torque, one assumes it also means the system spends much more time near peak torque as both the engine is stronger, and M/G1 is spinning faster.

    If stock, the amount of electricity delivered by M/G1 is less than what M/G2 needs, you will drain the battery for the rest. (under some scenarios M/G1 electricity plus battery electricity will still be less than M/G2 'wants')

    With more engine power, we will need to resist that power by increasing load on M/G1 by making electricity. With M/G1 producing more electricity, the time the battery drains are fewer and M/G2 has more electrical power to convert into mechanical power.

    Our Peak power may not actually increase much, M/G2 can always consume more electrical power than the sum of the battery and M/G1 but with a more powerful engine, we will also get more power more often from M/G1. We would have a wider power band and it would run out of battery power less often.

    2) Otto versus Aktinson does not effect the transaxle.* While the Power Split device needs an engine to make more power than M/G2 can alone, it does not matter what kind of engine it is. We only choose Atkinson so we can get the best fuel economy. Once you are talking supercharging, turbocharging, larger engines, or the Otto cycle, you have given up on MPG.**

    * It sure may need revised software, just not different gearing.
    ** If you are going to give up on MPG, why start with a Prius?
     
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  16. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    Mehn! I like your extensive explanations.

    Thanks for the time you've spent expalning.

    Learnt a lot from what you've just said.
     
  17. R-P

    R-P Active Member

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    You did? :ROFLMAO:
    I'll have to reread it a few more times to actually understand WHAT he just wrote (and I do consider myself technologically savvy...)
     
  18. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    Power of the engine to the ground is limited by the power of the two motors. But a more powerful engine can make M/G1 more powerful, broadening the power band.
     
  19. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    That means, an echo or Yaris 1.5L Otto cycle engine would help with increasing MG1 power output?

     
  20. valde3

    valde3 Senior Member

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    Yes, maybe, or not. First you would need to modify it so that the control unit would be able control that engine. Then you might have to do something for the control unit(s) to accept more power from the engine.