Jerry's Evolving Thoughts on "new-to-me" Prime Premium

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by jerrymildred, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    I see that spot in the manual, but it's impossible to see when the car is on the floor. But as you can see in the picture below, the spot they call for is only a couple inches from that bolt. Now that I know it's there, I might give it a shot, but I didn't even see it after I got under the car and looked for it. It's so close to the shield, I'm not sure I can count on hitting it with the jack cradle and not also catching the shield since it's impossible to get a good look at it. In fact, my jack cradle might actually be bigger than that area that's circled in the manual.
    Screen Shot 2019-11-18 at 11.15.00 AM.jpg
     
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  2. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I thought about spray painting that spot with highlight color for an easy identification, but I haven't. Yeah, trying to hit that front jacking point is so difficult and cumbersome, I have resorted to jacking mine up from the sides for now. I think it is just as quick as fiddling with the center jack point.

    from thread: Please show me where the floor jack suppose to go! | Page 2 | PriusChat
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Titanic Social Director

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    It looks like a flat rubber cradle would be good for that application. PowerFist (aka cheap made in China, lol):

    Floor Jack Saddle | Princess Auto

    That's what I'm using. Only issue: the pin on the underside has a very generous bead of weld all 'round, that runs into the hole on my jack. My cobble was to put a small square of plywood as a washer between the two, with a tight fit hole for the pin, and a larger diameter counter-bore to clear that weld.

    The cradle's pin has enough reach to still solidly lock, even with the plywood. And it also increases the lift of the jack by 3/4".

    IMG_1468.JPG IMG_1469.JPG
     
    #523 Mendel Leisk, Nov 18, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
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  4. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Good idea! I'm not sure how long it would last, but it's worth a try.

    That would be nice. I already made a wooden disk for my jack cradle. Seems to work OK, but it's a matter of time before it breaks. I put a pair of big hose clamps around it to keep it from splitting along the grain and so far, so good. Nice part of it is that it only adds less than 14" to the height of the cradle. If mine breaks, I'll get a rubber one. I see lots of them on Amazon.
     
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  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Titanic Social Director

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    Yeah I sometimes just put a hockey puck in the cradle, or a small square of 2x4 on the flat with the corners knocked off, plus the hockey puck.

    With my daughter's pilot, the front jacking point is the edge of a plate tow hook: nothing but the steel cradle works there, lol.
     
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  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Titanic Social Director

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    The 3rd gen jacking point is on the front most lower cross beam, just aft of the radiators (engine/inverter coolant and AC).

    Has that beam been eliminated in 4th Gen? Or it's weaker, not suitable as a jacking point?

    Just food for thought, and not something you wouldn't want to test without exercising great caution.
     
    #526 Mendel Leisk, Nov 19, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
  7. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    I didn't look for that beam when I had the cover off. Check out the left side of the picture in post #521 from the manual. There is nothing but plastic from the front bumper back to the lift point behind the front wheels. It's one big sheet that you remove to get to the transaxle and other stuff. And there's another sheet that continues on to the front of the car. The one you remove is actually shingled under the front one. No lifting point at all.
     
    #527 jerrymildred, Nov 19, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
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  8. m8547

    m8547 Active Member

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    Maybe we could find a crossmember farther forward, and put reinforcement under that so it touches the plastic cover. For example on my 4runner the front lifting point is on the thin sheet metal skid plate, but there is a 3 inch tall structural column built into the lift point on the skid plate that transfers the load to a crossmember.
     
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  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Titanic Social Director

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    That's what I'm thinking. I'd guess the more-to-the-front beam would be touching the plastic underpanel; you could just put an "X" on the plastic underpanel, where to put the jack.

    The 64 dollar question though: even if the beam is there, why is Toyota not using it? There's a chance it's not strong enough, or you'd fracture the front end of the car. Also, on 3rd gen, there's some reinforcing on the bottom flange of the front beam, at the jacking point.

    Again, just food for thought, not something to try without some forethought.

    If the front beam is there (and I'd think it is, for front engine mount??), and I was going to experiement, I'd for starters use a flat rubber "cradle", and do a tentative lift, just an inch or two, and see what's happening, any creaks or groans.
     
  10. m8547

    m8547 Active Member

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    Maybe they are not using it just to avoid damaging the plastic panel? For example my jack has four "teeth" that would definitely dig into the plastic if I didn't use something to protect it.
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Titanic Social Director

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    I'd think the other way 'round: they haven't put an opening in the panel at the front beam, because they've deemed that beam it too weak to use, or lifting at that point is just too much strain on the front end. But who knows: maybe their latest crew engineers are just out-of-touch with the realities of floor jack reach???
     
  12. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    If there was a good lifting point father forward, I'd think they'd have put a hole there. I sure didn't see anything like a lift point when I had the plastic off. It's just safer to use the spot in the manual. Not that big a deal to drive the front wheels onto a couple boards and roll the jack back there. It was just a pain to work out the system the first time. Once you know, you're good to go.
     
  13. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    EV efficiency observation:
    Now that it's cooling down, I'm getting to drive under previously unencountered temperatures with the Prime. Since I got it in March, these are the "coldest" mornings yet, and even when it just gets down to 50F in the morning, there's a serious drop in m/kWh. On days like that, I seem to get about 4.6 on the way to work. Then in the afternoon at around 70-75F it pulls the daily average up to about 5.2. So, apparently the change from 70-50 is pretty drastic for the battery. I usually preheat before I unplug in the morning, but I still have to run the climate control to keep from fogging up. On the way home, it's all climate control off and windows closed. Probably as efficient as it gets.

    This morning at about 54F coming in I only got about 4.8 m/kWh but got a 98 ECO score. So right now, under these condition, it's not really any better or worse than in the summer with having to run the AC all the time.
     
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  14. DavidA

    DavidA Prius owner since July 2009

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    Well, Jerry, it can get worse in colder climates. Be happy with what you achieved with your 4.6.

    Just a week ago, with temps in the upper 20's (F) and with very moist and snowy conditions, I was able to get to work with a whopping 1.2 on the MID. That's bad. But sometimes that is as good as it gets in winter. Most of that low score was with the car ON in EV-only and the heater on heat pump defrost/foot mode while I was chopping ice off the windows. Then the big 1+ mile route to work. Lots of time dealing with the ice and fogging, and not much time actually driving. It didn't get any better on the way home 8 hours later.
     
    #534 DavidA, Nov 21, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
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  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Titanic Social Director

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    Here's a pic with the cover removed. There is a forward cross-beam, still: is it strong enough. I think it has an engine mount (actually to transaxle?). Similar beam on 3rd gen was the jacking point, fwiw.

    upload_2019-11-24_8-21-28.png
    You can also see the proscribed jacking point, looks like about a yard between them.

    Screen grab from video linked here, at 5:23:

    DIY Undercoating | PriusChat
     
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  16. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Hard to tell in that picture. It looks pretty lightweight. I think it's just the radiator support. If so, not a candidate for lifting the front of the car. I have about 3,500 more miles till I think I'l change the oil again. I drive 1,200-1,500 miles a month, so it will be a little while. I don't think it's urgent enough for me to make a special effort to find out right away. But I think it's unlikely that there would not be a hole in the plastic there and instructions in the manual for such if it was suitable for lifting. ;)
     
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  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Titanic Social Director

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    They mighta reduced the ga on that beam, and there isn't the extra layer bumped out, like third gen. blinking design fail, harrumph.
     
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  18. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    I try not to be too disappointed with this. They added lots of weight with the big battery and had to reduce it where they could. The spot indicated for lifting had to be strong. The spot we would have preferred to use did not have to be strong. The car compensates with this need for enthusiast ingenuity in lots of ways. ;)
     
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  19. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Titanic Social Director

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    The 64 dollar question: if you run the front end up on a bit of makeshift ramp (say 3", 2 times 1.5), and then roll a floor ramp to the front jacking point, would that be doable, would you have enough clearance on the jack handle to get it started?

    An extended reach jack, maybe??

    You'd have a hope with something like this:

    Hydraulic Jacks · DK13HLQ · AC Hydraulic A/S
     
    #539 Mendel Leisk, Nov 25, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
  20. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    That's just what I did do. In fact, it only took about 2".

    Nope. That looks too high back near the wheels and with 37" total frame length, the wheels would definitely have to go way back under the car. And with a frame height of over 6" it won't even be close to going under the car. It might even be a little higher than my jack. I'll just keep doing what I did last time but I'll make something a little more permanent than stacking a couple pieces of shelving under each front tire.
     
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