KWh/ Mile? Justifying 19 cent KWh electric rate

Discussion in 'Prime Plug-in Charging' started by kearsarge, Dec 12, 2016.

  1. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Are you selling back to the grid? Do you have extra? How many kW system do you have?
     
  2. Oniki

    Oniki Active Member

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    E N R O N.

    Those massive debts did not just disappear
     
  3. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Generation costs, reportedly, are much higher. California has a lot of surplus capacity. It is easy to build new power generation plants (from a regulatory view). Plants are then operated at a lower capacity, but the full construction costs still get ‘baked in’ to the costs.
     
  4. Roy2001

    Roy2001 Active Member

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    I am paying 18c for tier one as well, but hey, I would rather pay a little more for NOT using the gas and no I don't want to see my money goes to OPEC.
     
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  5. Mattdaddy

    Mattdaddy Junior Member

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  6. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Did you try clicking the link?
     
  7. Roy2001

    Roy2001 Active Member

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    I am really jealous. My rate with PG&E for tier1 400kwh is 20c, tier2 400kwh is 27C. If I choose timed rate, of peak (11pm-7am) is 12C but peak (2-8pm) is 45C which is ridiculous and not work for me due to central valley hot weather during summer.

    So I want to change to timed rate but switch back to tiered rate during summer, but that's too much hassle as it takes 1 billing cycle to take effect. PG&E just sucks and is like parasitic.
     
  8. Oniki

    Oniki Active Member

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    That is rough if you cannot put up PV.
    Even so, hang in there. Utility excess capacity is a moving target in California. They will come to you with better offers down the road and in the meantime, worse case you have a very efficient gas car.
     
    #148 Oniki, Feb 13, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  9. Roy2001

    Roy2001 Active Member

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    I am looking to install solar panel. Once installed, I won't even care about utility companies, I would avoid them at any cost.
     
  10. erikrocketman1

    erikrocketman1 New Member

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    If anyone's interested in your cost savings getting a Prius Prime vs regular car, I've created an excel sheet you can play around with that's attached to this post. Only real variables are miles/kWh, kWh in eV, $/gal, and kWh cost.

    This excel sheet applies to all Prius, just change kWh in eV to 0, and change mpg.

    Has a tab for Tesla as well.
     

    Attached Files:

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  11. Oniki

    Oniki Active Member

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    That's a nice sheet.

    This question is hard to model because our driving distances are variable. At least for the Prime, since it is probably the cheapest car for long trips it is probably fair to pick the most common distance and conclude that annual savings will be at least the calculated amount. Attempts to compare two plug-ins with different battery ranges is a mess.
     
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  12. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Very nice. Thank you.
     
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  13. Richard Dillman

    Richard Dillman New Member

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    I measured total kilowatt hours consumed over six days of short trips in EV mode with overnight charging. Result: 4.82 mi per KWh. At today's prices ($2.799 per gal for gas and $0.30 per KWh for electricity) that's 6.2 cents per EV mile. In hybrid mode the official estimate is 55 city miles per gal or 5.1 cents per HV city mile. You're right. If energy cost is the criteria, hybrid mode wins. I have solar panels; therefore, I pay less for electricity.
     
  14. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Or live in a place that doesn't charge $0.30 for a kWh of electricity. I pay 9 cents in the winter and 14 cents in the summer for a marginal kWh, which stomps all over gasoline.
     
  15. noonm

    noonm Active Member

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    For those looking to compare gas v electric (and not wanting to do the math), should check out this thread: Gas or Electric: Which one is cheaper for the Prius Prime! | PriusChat

    Also, (assuming 54mpg on gas and 4mi/kWh on electric) the 'break-even' price for gas to 30cents/kWh would be $4.05/gal.

    However, I'm curious where the op lives to cost 30cents/kWh. From what I've seen, in the U.S. the only state at or above 30cents/kWh is Hawaii: https://www.chooseenergy.com/electricity-rates-by-state/

    Most states fall into the 10-15cents/kWh range, which makes the 'break-even' gas price at $1.35/gal to $2.03/gal.
     
  16. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    By profile @Richard Dillman lives in Andover, MA. I don't know the exact electricity rate in Andover, but your table is showing the state average. That means there are localities in the state that are higher than the average listed. I feel lucky that our electricity rate is not as high, but at $0.195/kWh, currently with gas price below $2.50/gal it is almost even. My last two years of driving PRIME, my EV was slightly more expensive to drive at $0.048/mile vs. for HV with gas at $0.045/mile.
     
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  17. noonm

    noonm Active Member

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    Fair point, but I took at look at the Mass PU page and I haven't been able a rate at any of the major electric companies anywhere close to 30cents/kWh
    Electric rates and tariffs | Mass.gov

    What's more confusing, is that the 'compare electric rate' websites seem to be giving values below even the state average:
    https://www.chooseenergy.com/massachusetts/
    Highest = $0.1339 / kWh
    Massachusetts Residential Electric Rates
    Highest = 15.09 ¢ / kWh

    Unless their is some ridiculous surcharge that these sites aren't telling me about, I don't see how he's paying 30cents/kWh.
     
  18. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I don't know how the electric rate is posted at those site for sure, but MA is deregulated state. Customer can choose a supplier of their choice. Those posted rates may be just a supply portion of the rate. Usually, on the electric bills, there is a distribution part of rate added from the utility company who manages and upkeeps the grid. In my case, the distribution part of the electric rate is about the same as the supply part, or the total rate is double of the published supply rate. Also, choosing a supplier is not always straight forward. In the past, I have contracted with a supplier for very low locked in rate, but I did not read the small prints on the contract. The locked in rate was only for the first 6 months and my contract was for a year. Last 6 months of the electricity supply rate was VARIABLE. There was an early termination penalty clause in the contract, thus I ended up paying quite a bit higher than the average electric rate for 6 months.
     
  19. Tha_Ape

    Tha_Ape Member

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    Wow, looking at how i drive and electric rates, gas would have to be <$1.00/ gallon to be worth it. I had no idea electric rates vary so much across the nation.
     
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