Mileage drop with new tires

Discussion in 'Prime Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by High Mileage, Oct 25, 2020.

  1. High Mileage

    High Mileage Active Member

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    My 2018 Prime Advanced was in need of new tires at 55K miles. It came stock with the Toyo Nanoenergy tires that in my opinion did well. I still had some remaining tread depth in the middle of the tire, but edge wear had me concerned with winter coming.
    I had 4 sets of the Bridgestone Ecopia tires on my Gen3 that consistently ran 60-70K miles, and they were easy to get at the local Costco.
    I went to Costco and had a set installed on 10/22/2020.
    My drive each way to work is 63 miles. Morning is a downhill drive where I consistently get 44 miles on battery with normal outside temperatures. Going home I typically get 25-27 miles on battery.
    I realize it is early, but so far I am losing 8 actual miles of electric range from my morning commute, from 44 down to 36. The evening commute I have lost ~3 miles of electric range. This is not the estimate on the dash, this is actual miles.
    I am very much hoping that with some "Break-in" that the range will recover, but I am curious if anyone else has seen this kind of change?
    This loss was instantaneous and correlates directly with the tire change. Ambient temperatures have not yet changed here, not using AC etc. This is all battery driving that I am seeing the change with that seems easy to calculate vs driving on gasoline that can have other factors that pollute the calculation.
    I will add that my miles/kwh were averaging 6.3-6.8 with favorable outside temperatures, my numbers so far have dropped to 5.3 kw/mile.
    If I had not seen it for myself I would not have believed that a different set of tires could influence mileage this much. Again hopefully with some break-in? I will recover some of this loss otherwise I may be looking for a set of the Toyo tires.
     
    #1 High Mileage, Oct 25, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
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  2. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    Are your new tires EXACTLY the same size as the old ones ?
    Just a slight difference it the outer circumference can throw the calculation off.
     
  3. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    There will naturally be some break-in, but "recovery" depends upon what you purchased as a replacement. If the new tires don't have as good of a rolling-resistance or aren't even the eco type, efficiency will permanently be reduced.

    There's also the question of PSI in the tires now. Since wear wasn't even across the tire width, with edges wearing faster, that was likely a sign of not being inflated enough. I run mine at 42 PSI (max cold rating is 44 PSI) and see consistent wear. A soft tire will reduce efficiency, as well contribute to uneven wear. So, you'll definitely want to check & maintain more frequently.
     
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  4. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    My 2017 PP came with Dunlop Enasave OEM tires. When I swapped to winter wheels and tires Xice3, I did not see much reduction in EV range or HV mpg even when the tires were not broken in. Other than seasonal fluctuations, two sets of tires performed equally efficiently during winter. I now have a 2020 PP that came with Ecopia 422 Plus OEM tires. I am due to swap those with my old Xice3 soon. I can report the change in EV range or HV mpg then, but I am doing very little driving nowadays, so the comparison may not be statistically valid.

    One thing about Ecopia 422 Plus is that there are at least three different models of tires. OEM tires are Made in Japan, but most aftermarket tires sold in the US are either made in US or made in Mexico. They may have different tread patterns and thus may have different fuel efficiencies.
     
    #4 Salamander_King, Oct 25, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
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  5. High Mileage

    High Mileage Active Member

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    Hi Sam Spade 2, tires are the same size as far as 195/65/15, although outer circumference could be slightly different than the Toyo's that were on it. Trying to keep my "Testing" as consistent as possible I can say that my displayed miles traveled and the actual area when I transition from battery to the ICE has definitely changed with the new tires.
    John1701a, I put on the Bridgestone Ecopia EP422+ which was what I could get from Costco and was part of the list for low rolling resistance. I was running 33-35psi in the Toyo Tires. Costco set the Ecopia's at 35. I will try bumping them up at some point to see if there is any improvement. In my opinion the Toyo tires did well to reach 55K miles based on comments from others that did not get close to that. My driving entails a certain amount of windy road driving that I think contributes to the edge wear, but the lower PSI may have also contributed.
    Salamander_King. I have seen significant changes in my EV range based on outside temperature that effects battery efficiency and charging capacity. In this situation the drop I have seen on these new tires has been instantaneous and so far consistent with 3 drive cycles between home and work that are exactly the same. I was unable to find anything on the tire to indicate country of origin. I will be trying some higher pressures to see if this improves the mileage. I hoped this post would help someone in the future as I would have not believed this kind of mileage loss without seeing it myself.

    upload_2020-10-25_10-9-51.png
     

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  6. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    It is printed on the sidewall. Since the tire is symmetrical, depending on the way it is installed it may be printed on the inside wall, in which case, unless you take the tire off, you may not be able to see it. I don't have data to compare the different countries of origin on mpg. But they are not the same tires even though all labeled as Ecopia 422 Plus.

    upload_2020-10-25_17-10-3.png

    upload_2020-10-25_17-15-20.png
     
    #6 Salamander_King, Oct 25, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
  7. Hydrocket

    Hydrocket Junior Member

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    Just put a set of Michelin Crossclimate+ on.

    Mileage seems unchanged
     
  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    For Ecopia in 195/65R15 I'd stick with EP20. They only come in that size.

    Advantages:

    1. AFAIK there's no multi-country, multi-tread, multi-god-knows-what.

    2. They're pretty reliably ultra low rolling resistance, from the get go.

    Disadvantages:

    1. They're a "cheap" tire, are pretty slick once the tread is half-worn.

    2. They get quite noisy, again as they wear.
     
  9. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Just to add a few facts about Ecopia EP20. It is an OEM tire often used on Gen3 Prius, but I have not seen them on Prius Prime or even on Gen4. When it is sold as aftermarket tire, EP20 does not come with tread warranty and it is harder to find in the store and more expensive than EP422Plus.
     
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  10. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Oh wow, I saw a huge increase in MPG on our Gen-2 when we switched from what Michelin claimed was a low-rolling-resistance tire to Ecopia+s. They also came on our Prime, and seem to be doing well economy-wise. But you apparently got even lower rolling resistance with your Toyos?

    Do you recall what exactly your Toyo tires were?

    So, how did the Toyos do in terms of noise? That’s my biggest complaint about Ecopia+s: the tires themselves are quite quiet, but they play road texture like a phonograph needle! On a smooth road, they and the whole car are nearly silent, but on even a slightly rough pavement, the noise level goes way up quickly!
     
    #10 mr88cet, Oct 26, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
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  11. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Our P.Prime came with Ecopia+ EP22s.
     
  12. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Do you mean Ecopia 422Plus? That is what I have on my 2020 PP, but they are different from Ecopia EP20 that came with my Gen3.
     
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  13. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Ah, yes, you’re right, they are 422s.

    Actually, my correction stands corrected: they’re both: Ecopia EP422 Plus.
     
    #13 mr88cet, Oct 26, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
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  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    @mr88cet EP20 and EP422 Plus are two distinct Bridgestone Ecopia tires.
     
  15. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    This makes no sense to me.

    We are talking about "road noise" and that's kind of hard to define without a ROAD surface to run them on.

    It takes a very poorly designed or very aggressive tread design to be noisy on a perfectly smooth road surface.
    Or to put it another way, most ALL tires are quiet on a perfectly smooth road.
     
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  16. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Yes, road-surface-induced noise. Our Ecopia+ tires on Gen-2 and Prime don’t suppress road-surface nose very well.
     
  17. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    The Gen 2 came with a crappy set of tyres - they were cheap. I guess being LRR also helped. They were Goodyear Integrity.
     
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  18. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    I can’t immediately recall what tires came with our 2009 (possibly Turanzas), but the Michelins that weren’t so great MPG-wise were a replacement for them.
     
  19. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Ohh, you had the Touring model with 16" wheels (those came with Turanzas IIRC)
     
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  20. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Yes, it is the Touring version, with 195s instead of 185s.
     
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