My PCS Experiences

The new system 'scares' people, which is much different than actually causing an accident. Your example is fear-mongering. I'll repeat in a more clear way. Please show me how the latest in safety systems have actually caused an accident resulting in injury or death?

 

Maybe I've missed something, but has anybody actually taken their car in to ensure that the system is functioning correctly? And if so, has the dealer actually done a reasonable job at testing and calibrating the system? I expect most dealers wouldn't, as it's probably not something they're familiar with yet. Most probably do some handwaving and say "well, if I can't witness what it's doing, I can't diagnose it", because that's the easy thing to do. And because most customers won't want to sink $500 into labor only to have the dealer tell them that everything appears to be perfect.

I don't totally disagree with you - I think Toyota could do better with these systems. On the other hand, some of the best things they could do would add significant cost to them. If the system were much more expensive, then people wouldn't buy it, and if people aren't buying it, then future generations won't improve upon the current state-of-the art.

I think that the PCS is a well-engineered system that balances cost with performance. If safety were the only consideration, we'd all be wearing 5-point harnesses with helmets and head restraint.

 

In my case - yes!

No. If it wasn't malfunctioning WHEN I brought it in, there was nothing that they were willing to do.

EXACTLY!! But the point of my posting here is that the radar system needs error-detection and recording so that the dealer can see what HAS happened!

I should also note that prior to bringing the car into the dealer that I contacted Toyota. When the dealer wouldn't do anything I contacted Toyota again. They had the dealer contact me again - but all the dealer said was reiterate that if he couldn't find anything wrong, he couldn't fix it. Toyota was totally disinterested in this issue (even after filing with the NHTSA).

I beg to differ here:

1. The Advanced Technology Package adds significant cost to the car.
2. The costs of incorporating error detection and tracking software is pretty minimal. I suspect that it is the typical Toyota complacency that has kept this from happening.

 

Oh, so Toyota actually needs to have people die before they become concerned and will take action??

 

That's the first problem - there are procedures to calibrate and aim the radar sensor that the dealer could perform. It'd at least be a good first step to make sure that it's not picking up something other than what's in front of you. Maybe the dealer doesn't know about this, or doesn't want to accumulate labor charges without a guarantee of being able to fix something, but this part of the problem is mostly the dealer's fault, not Toyota's.

The first problem is knowing that there was an error to detect. I don't know what sort of data the radar sensor collects; for all I know, it may just be a single focused beam, so it produces a measurement of distance to an object in front and relative speed. It's possible that it's slightly more sophisticated than that - for example, it might know what direction the signal is coming from relative to the axis, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that this is the case.

So the best you might be able to do with the existing hardware is to record data so that the dealer could say "Well, it detected an object 50 feet in front of you for half a second approaching at 65 mph while you were moving at 65 mph." And that would help in some cases, like being able to guess that maybe it picked up a reflection off an object on the road or near the edge of the road. But most of the time, I doubt you'd be able to get anything useful out of such data. You'd need a much more sophisticated sensor, and probably supplementary sensors as well, to be able to reliably both detect an error and be able to diagnose the problem from the accumulated data.

That's why the most critical sensors (e.g. accelerator position, airbag sensors, etc.) have at least two independent sensors, detect open and short circuits, and the system has a defined safe behavior if they don't agree. Installing a second radar sensor might be an option, but it's subject to the same things that would cause errors on the first (misalignment, debris on the road, etc.), so I'm not sure it would be of great benefit. An independent sensor type and location (like a stereo camera or LIDAR) would be what is really needed to detect and diagnose errors.

If I were you, I'd insist that the dealer perform all testing and calibration that they can for the system. And if it's something you see more than once, perhaps having a dashcam that can see both the MFD and the road ahead will help convince the dealer that they need to do something.

 

"Been there, done that" (see my original post). Point is that neither Toyota or the dealer would investigate because there was no error tracking of any kind.