My year with the Volt. Costs and Comparisons

EREV is a marketing term. That shift is available to any plug-in vehicle. The point is to replace traditional vehicles.

Aspects like electricity use is appealing, but it's far from being a high priority for the mainstream.

Volt is currently a niche, an expensive compact that enthusiasts really like. How will it change to attract a wider audience?

 

The only efficiency that really matters is the overall system efficiency. Often one gets better efficency by combining components which are less efficient but if the system as a whole is more efficient, then its better.

Also, the PiP has not been shown to be more efficeint in EV mode.. Jeff's data was about the same. EPA data does not speak to it.. you cannot use Volt EPA vs some other PiP data. Efficeny has to include comparable usage. But since EV overall is much more efficient than ICE, the volt with more EV range is overall the more efficient vehicle.

As far as I know, EREV was first defined in an SAE paper.. a technical engineering paper. Its being incorporated into the SAE "standards" definitions.. its a meaningful engineering subcategory of PHEV that quickly explains something about the capabilities of the system and its operational mode. That marketing switched to EREV from their earlier use of E-FLEX is because its a better descriptor.

Every PHEV can shift some to renewable.. but if you only have 10-12 miles per charge, they that is what you can shift.. if you gave 35-45 miles per charge, one can shift 3-4 times more per day to renewable..

You are right that for the mainstream efficiency of any kind is not a priority.. that's why so many BMW, Audi and Caddy drivers are in a Volt.. because of the drive quality not just efficiency. Many of them don't give a hoot about GHG, but many do care about reducing oil consumption for either national security or national economy reasons.

When the prius launched it was, compared to comparable cars, expensive and a niche for enthusiasts. It takes years to prove out new technology, overcome long-standing baiases (e.g. hate of GM/UAW bailout, mistrust of american manufactures), and bring down costs. The cost may not drop much, but just as in the early Prius, it may also not rise as fast as regular cars. The Volt may not really change that much, but the market will become more comfortable with the concept, the quality (hopefully) will prove out, the constant drone of naysayers, like you, will fade as years of whining about things which are not true begin to show through as the FUD they really are. Years of being the most highly satisfied model car speak to the quality. Posts like the OP will show people that the anti-EREV FUD is baseless. That's how things will change to attract a wider audience.

 

That's true only from vehicle efficiency point of view. However, PiP was optimized for the entire eco-system (well-to-wheel or even LCA) efficiency and emission.

 

they didn't do a very good job then.

 

Why do you say that? PiP is rated 210 g/mi while Volt is rated 260 g/mi. That should shed some light on well-to-wheel efficiency as well.

I think they did a very good job balancing efficiency and emission with cost, practicality, interior space(midsize) and charging time.

 

I thought the volt and prius phv had the same well to wheel ghg in California and New York. Since the phv isn't sold yet in texas or florida Toyota must not think its optimum. I don't know whether they don't want to sell it here because of the heat or something else, but perhaps they are waiting for a bigger battery. I don't know you tell me. Anyway you slice it, if you tell a Texan they should have bought a prius phv instead of a volt, the sales problem has to be all Toyota. Lack of test drives and dealer support for us, makes the harping about optimal seem a little tone deaf. I was able to test drive a phv, and thought the volt much nicer. Neither are nearly as nice as a tesla S though.

 

You make similar claims on just about every post but they don't ever seem to stand once the details are examined. I think you are just a fanboi, which is fine except that you constantly make erroneous statements about the Volt in an attempt to support your fanboi ways.

 

Those are EPA numbers weighted by kWh generated in the entire US. I was pointing that out because you said Toyota didn't do a good job optimizing PiP to be a practical ultimate eco-car.

I asked you why you thought that. You did not answer and then called me a fanboi.

 

First, the EPA numbers are out of date. 2009 is the earliest data they are using I believe. Second, none of us charge from an outlet fed with average electricity.

 

FYI, I finally posted the summarized PiP/Volt Switcheroo numbers.

PiP/Volt January 7-11 Switcheroo | Page 11 | PriusChat

 

Of course not. EPA doesn't use ideal scenario (solar or wind electricity) nor the worse (coal). They weight them by the amount of kWh each fuel sources generate electricity. eGrid 2012 data shows about 5% cleaner grid.

 

Doesn't EPA = Enormous Political Administration?

DBCassidy

 

+1

Great information

What do you think of Jeff N and Devprius's switcheroo. Somehow the volt came out lower in ghg for Jeff and about even for Devprius. There isn't an ultimate eco car for everyone. For Jeff N, he seems to be doing better on energy on the volt, for devprius the two seem more of a toss up, and the prius phv seems like a good choice. No one, lives on the national grid in 2007, remember YMMV. We can each take our driving habits and ideas about gasoline versus electricity to make a choice. Most will chose an ice non-hybrid, but some will chose a plug-in.

You can figure solar or wind from EPA's numbers. They never tell you to use the national grid. My guess is the great bulk of prii phv get sold on the left coast and NY, that is from general plug-in sales figures and the lack of distribution in most states. Those 4 states are much lower in NOx, SO2, particulates, and even ghg than the national grid. The epa flip chart uses 2007 figures. egrid 2012 uses 2009. In the first 9 months of 2012 coal droped to under 37%, so pollution/kwh has been greatly reduced even since 2009. Will it continue? Almost certainly if a plug-in car is not using renewables now, it will be using less polluting electricity in 5 years. Coal may rachet up from 2012 levels in the short term, but they aren't going back to as high a percentage in 2009.

 

Somehow, this thread doesn't seem to increase sales. It is just "niche" marketing. That is all it will ever be.

DBCassidy

 

Volt driver, I'm wondering how the longevity of you vehicle went now that its 10+ years later? I guess I could continue down the 114 pages this thread has to find out. I'm asking as a person shopping for a used EV presently.

 

I guess it was only 7 pages. Maybe it was 114 replies.

 

there's a volt forum with a lot of good longevity information. they get very high marks from objective sources, gm really built them to last because they had a point to prove vs toyota.