P08A0 - Need Help!

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by darkgiant, Nov 4, 2019.

  1. darkgiant

    darkgiant Member

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    I have a 2013 Prius I am working on that has the P0A80 error code. I have worked with replacing Hybrid Batteries with refurbished or just simply pluck out the modules in the past, however, this car is driving me a bit nuts. When I use Dr. Prius to determine which module/block is the problem, it doesn't tell me anything, and instead says the hybrid battery passed the test but is reporting the P0A80 DTC.

    I ended up removing the hybrid battery, scanned each module and each module ranged around ~7.9 - 8.1 V (this battery was replaced very recently). I then decided to remove the buss bars and properly clean them with vinegar and baking soda, this helped clean them (and I have done this a few times in different batteries). I even re-measured the modules after re-attaching the cleaned up buss bars and nuts that hold everything and each module gave me acceptable/good voltage, so it is clear the modules are not a problem here.

    However, when I install the hybrid battery again, I scan through Techstream and still see the P0A80 code. I am absolutely puzzled why this is the case when each module is fine, and I thoroughly cleaned up all the connectors. I cleaned the hybrid fan as well (which was quite dirty). I, of course, am not seeing a yellow/red triangle or check engine light (I assume I'll see it after driving it ~50 miles).

    Any idea what else could be the cause? I very recently (as of last week) replaced the 12V battery from the dealer. Totally open to any advice or tips to resolving this problem!

    Edit: Error in the title! The DTC (Error code) is P0A80.
     
    #1 darkgiant, Nov 4, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
  2. darkgiant

    darkgiant Member

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    Looks like I posted this in the Prius V section... while this 2013 Prius isn't the "V" version, I suppose this post can still possibly be relevant, please do feel free to move this thread appropriately.

    Apologies for the error!
     
  3. darkgiant

    darkgiant Member

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    Update: it looks like Block 4 was troublesome for me, so I swapped the two cells in block 4 and another two cells and apropriately made sure lal the cells were charged properly.

    However, the P0A80 code still exists and shows up as a "Permanent DTC" that requires "three drive cycles". I can't find much information on how to perform these three drive cycles... would anyone know? I did unplug the 12V battery for a few minutes but it did not clear the code. The car, however, has not displayed the "Check Hybrid System" sign after driving 60 miles so far...
     
  4. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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  5. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Yes. My advice is to drive the car and not worry about it. It's under the "Permanent" category and should clear itself after driving the car for a while, as long as the trigger conditions no longer appear. The "permanent" codes do not illuminate the RTOD and just hang out in the background until they clear themselves. I've noticed this in a couple Gen 3's I've done. There's no way for the code to be cleared manually (at least by a DIYer, even with Techstream). I would like to think this is something Toyota added to prevent unscrupulous dealers/people from clearing a code and selling it to a sucker. It sucks for people who need to get a car inspection performed, because many places will fail the car until the DTC clears itself.

    I don't know what the exact sequence is to satisfy a drive cycle for a Gen 3 P0A80, but I can look in my books when I get home tonight to see if there's any info. I know I've seen Gen 2 drive cycles explained, but not sure about Gen 3.

    It may be worth contacting a Toyota Tech to find out the exact drive cycle requirement. As a matter of coincidence, didn't we just have a new member who joined. IIRC, he's a Toyota Tech ASE certified and hybrid guy. Maybe he would be able to provide the answer to this question.

    I posted the question for you:

    GOT HYBRID BATTERY QUESTIONS? ASK AWAY | PriusChat

    This is a generic drive cycle for emissions systems, as an example:

    OBD II Readiness Monitors

    OBD Drive Cycles


    Universal Drive Cycle


    In order for the PCM to properly execute all the readiness monitors on a particular vehicle, an OBD II drive cycle needs to be driven to achieve the enabling conditions for each monitor. The correct drive cycle for your vehicle can vary greatly depending on the vehicle’s year, make, model and manufacturer. The type of monitor you are trying to execute can also dictate the type of driving you need to perform.

    Vehicle specific drive cycle information can be found in the manufacturer’s service information, aftermarket service information, various websites and may also be included in the vehicle owner’s manual. Typically, a few days of normal driving, both city and highway, will make the monitors ready. The following generic drive cycle can be used as a guideline if a specific drive cycle is not known. It will assist with resetting monitors when a car specific drive cycle is not available. However, it may not work for all vehicles and readiness monitors.


    • The universal OBD-II drive cycle begins with a cold start (coolant temperature below 122 F, and the coolant and air
      temperature sensors within 11 degrees of one another). This condition is easily achieved by letting the car sit overnight.
    • The ignition key must not be left on prior to the cold start. Otherwise the heated oxygen sensor diagnostic may not run.
    • Start the engine and idle the engine in drive for two and half minutes, with the A/C and rear defroster on if equipped.
    • Turn the A/C and rear defroster off, and accelerate to 55 mph under moderate, constant acceleration. Hold at a steady
      speed for three minutes.
    • Decelerate (coast down) to 20 mph without braking or depressing the clutch for manual transmissions.
    • Accelerate back to 55-60 mph at 3/4 throttle. Hold at a steady speed for five minutes.
    • Decelerate (coast down) to a stop without braking.
     
    #5 TMR-JWAP, Nov 12, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
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  6. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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  7. tankyuong

    tankyuong Senior Member

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    Get a new battery pack
     
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  8. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Or the kit of new cells from @2k1Toaster . The link is in my signature.
     
  9. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    A new hybrid battery pack or the 2k1toaster pack WILL NOT clear the P0A80 code in the "Permanent" status. I don't know how to make that any more clear. Even using Techstream to clear all codes will not
    clear the permanent codes.( At least the version I have won't.) As far as I know, only drive cycles will clear it. Toyota uses different drive cycle requirements for different car functions. My Gen 2 reference mentions that drive cycle information can be found in the Toyota Technical Information System (Toyota TIS)….So, if anyone here has access to that, maybe they can provide some enlightenment.

    https://techinfo.toyota.com

    I believe it needs a subscription, but can supposedly supply the needed info to reset the permanent status code.

    Obviously, the work done by the OP has cleared the "Current" DTC status, and there is no "Pending" so the pack is fine. If the DTC pops up again, it will illuminate the RTOD.
     
    #9 TMR-JWAP, Nov 12, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
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  10. Elektroingenieur

    Elektroingenieur Senior Member

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    Correct. I mentioned the relevant Repair Manual (more info) topics in a previous posting.
     
  11. darkgiant

    darkgiant Member

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    Thank you for clearing things up @TMR-JWAP, I do appreciate the "sales pitch", but I think I am handy enough to tinker around this problem... fortunately there are few shops around the area who can offer refurbished battery packs if it does come down to it. I have driven the car roughly ~120 miles since the Hybrid Battery with the replaced blocks were inserted and no red triangle.

    @Elektroingenieur would you happen to have access to the actual steps for the driving cycle? Apologies in advance if I somehow did skip over it from the thread you shared.
     
  12. Elektroingenieur

    Elektroingenieur Senior Member

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    I’d gladly share the text, but the copyright laws constrain how much of Toyota’s manuals I can post or distribute.

    As I wrote on the PriusChat Wiki page, many public libraries—including Seattle and King County—offer no-cost access to the ChiltonLibrary database, which includes the text and illustrations from the Repair Manual. The organization is a bit different, but the content is the same as published by Toyota.
     
  13. darkgiant

    darkgiant Member

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    Woah, thanks for calling out the libraries carrying this information, I will check ASAP and see if I can find the information on this subject from there. Thank you so much! :)
     
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  14. darkgiant

    darkgiant Member

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    So I looked through the Chilton database and couldn't find the exact steps to performing the driving cycle... would you happen to know which section I can search through? I did try putting the keywords "Drive Cycle" but it didn't return results on how the actual driving cycles are performed.
     
  15. Elektroingenieur

    Elektroingenieur Senior Member

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    In ChiltonLibrary, if you search for “P0A80,” it’s the first result, or see this topic:

    2013 Toyota Prius > Repair > Hybrid & Electric Vehicle Systems > Hybrid / Battery Control > Hybrid Battery System > P0A80-123; Replace Hybrid Battery Pack (2013 Prius From 10/2012)

    The procedure has steps numbered from 1 to 11.

    For the universal trip, see the four steps under “Perform the universal trip,” in the following topic, but note that the rest of its “Clear Permanent DTC” procedure isn’t applicable, since you’re using the P0A80 specific procedure:

    2013 Toyota Prius > Repair > Engine Performance & Emission Controls > 2ZR-FXE Engine Control > SFI System > DTC Check / Clear (2013 Prius From 10/2012)

    For inspection mode (maintenance mode), see this topic:

    2013 Toyota Prius > Repair > General Information & Identification > Introduction > Repair Instruction > Inspection Mode Procedure (2013 Prius From 10/2012)
     
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  16. darkgiant

    darkgiant Member

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    Thank you for sharing the appropriate location! I was able to find it! However, I for some reason was not able to clear the code permanent DTC, however, I have driven the car roughly ~400 miles now, filled it up to a full tank and no "Check Hybrid Sign" or "Check Engine/Red Triangle". I am getting roughly ~49MPG so I am assuming the battery itself is fine.

    I am going to take the car into the dealership for a recall repair (something with a hybrid system update)? I was hoping maybe they can possibly help clear it... unless of course, it costs gazillion bucks for them to do so...
     
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  17. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    Your battery is on the way out, many people have experienced the same thing and it was later when their battery completely failed
     
  18. darkgiant

    darkgiant Member

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    Would you mind elaborating? When I replaced the blocks that recorded low voltages, all the other blocks recorded healthy voltages. I will admit there was some level of corrosion on the buss bars, along with the fan being very dusty and dust accumulated between the cells, which I cleaned up.
     
  19. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    @darkgiant

    It sounds like you've done a good job on the rebuild. One way you can track the health of your battery is using an app called Hybrid Assistant and Hybrid Reporter. It has a battery test function where you can use the AC to load the battery. Basically, you warm up the engine and then park. Leave it in READY. Start the test and then max the AC. The app will record the voltage of each of the 14 battery blocks. Typically the test will start with a SOC ~63%. I manually stop the test when the battery is around 43% SOC. This is usually right before the engine starts (~42%) for recharging the battery. When you exit the app, it will automatically save the data. Then you can use the Hybrid Reporter app to graph the voltages. It will also give you some capacity calculations, but I'm more concerned about the 14 voltage graphs. A perfect battery would have all 14 lines laying directly on top of each other so they look like one line. No battery is perfect, so you end up with 14 individual lines that should all track with each other. A weak module will show up very clearly as it will have a line that drops off more quickly than the others. It's nice to be able to see information that can allow preventative work, before it actually gets you stuck somewhere.

    The thread below has some of the graphs from Hybrid Assistant/Reporter (first one is in post 5). You can clearly see how the weak module drops off.

    Just Another HV Battery Thread and Experiments | PriusChat
     
  20. darkgiant

    darkgiant Member

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    Thank you for the detailed response @TMR-JWAP! I will go ahead and try the Hybrid Assistant app and see what it says. Out of curiosity, how does this app compare to the Dr. Prius app? I did initially use that app for my testing in diagnosing my hybrid battery problems.
     
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