1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Photos - P3030 - Burnt Wiring Harness

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Phildo, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. Phildo

    Phildo Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    137
    106
    0
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    i-Tech
    Recently I saw a 2004 Prius sitting in a workshop yard so bought it cheaply. Rather than spend money on a tow truck I tried to get the car to move under its own power but was unsuccessful.

    I'll get this battery working in a couple of weeks but here are some photos you might find interesting/amusing.

    Error codes:
    P3000 - Battery Control System
    P3030 - Disconnection between battery and ECU
    C1259 - HV System Regenerative Malfunction
    C1310 - HV System Malfunction
    B1423 - Open in Pressure Sensor Circuit/ Abnormal Refigerant Pressure (Need to check the sight glass for bubbles)

    The P3000, C1259 and C1310 are fairly generic hybrid battery errors that don't point to anything specific.

    I hadn't seen the P3030 before, so did some homework on that one (thank you PriusChat!!!).

    I saw some photos and information to indicate that there was a fault between a wiring harness and the battery ECU.

    Having confirmed that I wasn't going to get the Prius moving with that error I removed the hybrid battery and took it home to tinker with.

    Sure enough, where the side wiring harness plugs into the ECU has burnt out.

    There is also a lot of corrosion on the copper busbars and nuts. I'll be replacing the busbars with nickel-plated ones that will arrive from China this week (ie the nickel plating prevents the corrosion).

    For nuts, I've got some 304 stainless steel ones.

    Toyota should have done both of these things when they built these cars.

    Nickle Plated Copper Hybrid Battery Bus Bars
    I paid $US75 + $US50 freight (ie $US125 total) for 220 bus bars (ie enough to do 8 Prius batteries with a few spares just in case).

    Anyone with a Toyota hybrid should get Techstream and a suitable cable (ie Mini-VCI cable or a VCX cable). Very useful.

    [​IMG]

    The Prius hybrid battery on the desk. You can already see plenty of corrosion on the copper busbars.

    [​IMG]

    As expected, there was significant burn damage where the harness connects to the battery ECU (ie the lower orange plug):

    [​IMG]

    The wires going into the white plug are from the temperature sensors. I’m hoping that I won’t have to replace those wires and sensors (ie cosmetic smoke damage only).

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This marking on the casing is interesting - I'm guessing that electrolyte has previously leaked from a module there.

    [​IMG]

    Lots of corrosion on the copper busbars - this creates additional resistance. Hence I'll be using nickel-plated busbars and stainless steel nuts to prevent this in future.

    [​IMG]

    There's also corrosion on that lower black cable. There's a product called Noalox that's sold in the US that is apparently the stuff to apply to prevent this, but it's not available in Australia.
    Ideal Industries - Noalox® Anti-Oxidant Compound

    [​IMG]

    The orange plug is where the harness connects to the ECU.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Having learned about the theory of the P3030 code last week I went and saw someone who's got a bunch of various hybrid batteries. I got a replacement harness and ECU from the stockpile of batteries.

    [​IMG]

    Stainless steel nuts:

    [​IMG]
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,571
    48,862
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    well done!(y)
     
  3. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    6,058
    5,783
    0
    Location:
    Columbia, SC
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    That complete wiring harness is available on line at a reasonable cost. Brand new, no corrosion, new wires, sensor tabs, orange plug etc. Corrosion on the exterior of the copper bars has zero effect as long as the copper under the fastener is in good condition. The copper that is sandwiched between the nut and the terminal flange is all that matters. The corrosion on the wire harness sensor tabs crimp area is the one that will bite you in the A**. That section of the harness is extremely susceptible to hairline fractures which will cause intermittent issues and HV faults. This all becomes a moot point with a new harness. It's the way to go. Will be good for 10 years or better. Your SS nuts are fine, but the OEM nuts, especially the Gen 3 and 4, have a larger diameter flange with more contact surface. Odds are that the SS nuts you have are a smaller flange diameter than the Gen 2, which is already smaller than the Gen 3/4. Just something to keep in mind.

    Take a measurement on the flange and let me know. If that brand is large diameter, I may get some. All the ones I've found here in the states have been small. Even the special order large flange ones I found are still smaller than the Gen 3/4 version.

    There's a disadvantage to the serrated version though. Although they grip tight, I've seen them cause issues when trying to remove. They also do not crush flush on the copper surface, as there is an airgap between each serration. This air gap, although extremely small, allows corrosion to start forming under the nut. I've seen this first hand on some 'aftermarket' batteries during disassembly. May not be an issue if you're using nickel plated.
     
    #3 TMR-JWAP, Feb 19, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
    edthefox5 and jerrymildred like this.
  4. Skibob

    Skibob Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    2,912
    1,494
    0
    Location:
    Northern California
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    So did you use a battery from another gen 2 Prius to drive the car home?
     
  5. Phildo

    Phildo Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    137
    106
    0
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    i-Tech
    The car is still sitting in the yard of the workshop that owned it.

    It's going to cost me at least $100 to tow it anywhere, so instead I'm going to get a battery working so that I can drive the car.

    The whole car is in rough condition. It's got 540,000km on the odometer (ie around 335,000 miles). This thing has been very, very well used.

    The interior is dirty and looks terrible. I'll remove the seats and carpet and clean it all once I get the car mobile.

    The paint is also faded in places. The Toyota Prius silver definitely does not like the Australian climate (ie hot summers).

    It will take me a few weeks but I'll turn a worn out heap of junk into something that's useable.
     
  6. Phildo

    Phildo Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    137
    106
    0
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    i-Tech
    Tonight I replaced the harness and ECU and took some photos of the old ones.

    Wow.

    There was quite a bit of heat in there.

    I actually bought a cheap air compressor this afternoon so that I can blow dust, lint, etc, out of battery casings.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I have a set of the Hybrid Automotive Prolong charger and discharger equipment, so will charge and discharge the complete pack three times before doing some load testing on the modules.

    I’ve also got a set of nickel-plated busbars and stainless nuts to replace the original parts.

    If I’m lucky then all the modules will be ok and I can get away with just some basic cycling with the Prolong equipment.

    [​IMG]
     
    2AR-FXE, Elektroingenieur and qettyz like this.
  7. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    6,058
    5,783
    0
    Location:
    Columbia, SC
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Great photos! The photo you showed with the suspected electrolyte leakage is exactly that, but I suspect you'll find that module isn't original to the pack. The busbars and sensor tabs look (to me) like they've been cleaned previously. The fine scratches are indicative of someone using one of those green fibrous scrub pads. That module was probably the cause of the previous disassembly/rebuild. A new harness at that time probably would have prevented that little arc-over fire. Look at the serial number of the modules. They should be relatively similar. If some are way different, those have been replaced. On the serial number, the first 2 digits are the day of the month (1-31) the third digit is the month (1-9, x,y,z) The fourth digit is the year code. An "L" would be 2010. Your 2004 original battery should have an E or F depending on whether it was assembled early or late in the model year.
     
    Skibob likes this.
  8. Skibob

    Skibob Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    2,912
    1,494
    0
    Location:
    Northern California
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    For some reason I thought you already owned a gen 2 Prius.
     
  9. Phildo

    Phildo Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    137
    106
    0
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    i-Tech
    Yes, the workshop owner said that a while ago they replaced two modules, the car ran fine for six months, then died and they left it parked out the back after that.

    A photo of the top of the pack shows that modules 5 and 9 (going by their numbering system) were replaced. Module 9 is directly above the stain on the casing (ie the previous module leaked).

    [​IMG]

    It's been connected to a Prolong charger for a few hours now, and is showing 234v. I'll leave it charging/balancing for the night and swap to the discharger when I wake up in the morning (ie 3:00 am here right now).

    [​IMG]

    Replacing the wiring harness and the main cable (ie the black one below the voltage sensor tabs) - do you recommend replacing both the harness and main cable with brand new ones for each battery rebuild? I don't know what the pricing of those parts is here, but it will be extremely expensive.

    The harness and main cable seem to be around $US100 for the pair in the US. I don't know what my local (ie Australian) price is, but it will be expensive. Things just cost more here, particularly when manufacturers such as Toyota know that they've got a captive market. I've sent an email to one dealership to get pricing, so I'll update this within 24 hours.

    What would have caused that to burn out like that? Moisture? Incorrect fitting? Aside from fitting a brand new harness and cable on each battery rebuild, is there any other way this can be prevented?

    What about the main/lower cable? Clean it? How/what with? Leave it as it is?

    [​IMG]

    For checking and recording module serial numbers, I really, really, really want what Kiwi (ie forum member on here) has:

     
    Elektroingenieur likes this.
  10. Phildo

    Phildo Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    137
    106
    0
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    i-Tech
    Ummmm... There are the three silver ones, the two white ones, the brown one, plus the wreck (for parts).

    Oh, and my girlfriend now has the silver one that I'll be fixing up for her (she needs a car that's cheap to run).

    Up to my eyeballs in Gen 2 Prius.

    They seem to follow me home. Regularly.

    Plus the four Camry hybrids, one of which is a taxi with 470,000km on it.

    Hence the obsession with learning how to rebuild batteries.

    Right now I need three Prius batteries and a Camry Hybrid battery. ASAP.

    We can talk about the numerous unfinished motorbike projects some other time.

    Sigh.

    :)
     
  11. Skibob

    Skibob Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    2,912
    1,494
    0
    Location:
    Northern California
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    So couldn’t you just take a battery pack from another Prius and drive the car home?

    Plus with 3 bad packs you must have the makings to repair at least 1 pack? Do you have a hobby charger and load tester yet?
     
  12. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    6,058
    5,783
    0
    Location:
    Columbia, SC
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    When I was cleaning busbars, I used muriatic acid. Does an amazing job on copper. Dip it, swish it and rinse. The problem is the sensing tabs. They're relatively fragile. Bend them a couple times and they're practically guaranteed to crack at the crimp area. I'm laughing at myself right now because I'm pretty sure the harness comes with the long main cable as part of the deal, but I can't remember 100%. The funny thing is that I have a handful of them in the shop. Pretty sure they come as one complete assembly.
     
    Skibob likes this.
  13. landspeed

    landspeed Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    351
    198
    0
    This needs to linked from the thread about burnt orange connectors :

    The battery fires at ECU sense connector thread | PriusChat

    May I ask - the damaged battery ECU... Have you opened it up yet? If you don't want it, I would be very, very interested in buying it from you. I live in NZ, so it wouldn't cost much to post. I am very interested in obtaining 'blown' ECUs like this, to try to understand what is going on. Your old ECU has a lot of corrosion on the outside making it very interesting; if you don't want to open it up please don't, but either way, please PM me or something, I am happy to help get it shipped over here; and I can look at it under my microscope and add it to my other broken ECU to try to recognise more about what is happening (and how to stop this problem happening... it is a real hazard and is likely to increase rapidly over time as our cars get older!)
     
    SFO likes this.
  14. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2004
    4,365
    3,209
    1
    Location:
    Madison, Wisconsin
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Awww yeah! These are some awesome photos!
    Mind if I use some for posts on my businesses Facebook page?

    It's the kind of stuff that helps remind customers to heed warning lights on their dash.
     
  15. Phildo

    Phildo Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    137
    106
    0
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    i-Tech
    Let’s take a look at the circuit board.

    I immediately found a glaring error from Toyota - the screws were conventional Philips head.

    Wow.

    I was expecting some strange fastener that requires a tool from a far-away factory that makes about two of them per year (and the next four years is already sold out).

    Looks like Toyota’s ECU designer decided to phone it in that day and actually apply some common sense.

    This board and wiring harness didn’t just decide to resign quietly.

    Oh, hell no.

    One hell of a tantrum there.

    Kinda wish that I could do the same some days. :ROFLMAO:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    My nickel-plated busbars just arrived. Now I’m finally starting to get somewhere.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Elektroingenieur likes this.
  16. Phildo

    Phildo Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2016
    137
    106
    0
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    i-Tech
    Well, much to my amazement the Australian pricing for the harness and cable isn’t a complete catastrophe after all.

    My understanding is that Columbian drug lords have always been extremely envious of Toyota’s parts profit margins.

    The wiring prices must have been set by a work-experience kid (ie intern), and will likely quadruple once a regular Toyota pricing person notices. RIP work-experience kid when that happens. (sarcasm)

    However, Toyota do get to have the last laugh by not having stock in the whole country. Not one. Nada. Zilch.

    Got to wait weeks for them to come from Japan (3 to 4 weeks).

    But hey, they’ve got the ECU in stock in Sydney. Lovely.

    *slow clap for Toyota*

    Item: Voltage Sensor Wire Harness
    Part Number: 82165-47040
    Price ($A): $97.27 (ex Japan)

    Item: Main Battery Cable (black cable)
    Part Number: G9242-47090
    Price ($A): $43.31 (ex Japan)

    However, you can see Toyota starting to apply their usual sense of humour when it comes to ECU pricing:

    Item: Hybrid Battery ECU
    Part Number: 89890-47092
    Price ($A): $883.61 (ex Sydney 1 week).
     
    edthefox5 likes this.
  17. landspeed

    landspeed Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2007
    351
    198
    0
    The ECUs always seem to short from the inside; and it is almost always pins 11 / 22 (especially 22). There is no obvious reason for this to happen, and your battery itself looks pretty good.

    The black smoke on the circuitboard has 'shadows', as if it blasted out suddenly, for a short time, and any components in the way tend to have less smoke deposition on the side facing away from the melted side. I still think it is random plasma arcing; my avatar from a perfectly good battery ECU shows what I think might be causing this!
     
    SFO likes this.
  18. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    7,447
    3,751
    0
    Location:
    Wellington, New Zealand
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Interesting. I regularly am having to order less well used parts ex Japan, and generally I only wait a week to 10 days for them.
     
  19. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    585
    297
    0
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    Ahhh yes, the magic loose connector on the pin trick. Heats the plastic up enough for a number of connectors to touch and whamo, an arc toasts the whole lot.
    I was just in Perth for a week, pity we couldn't have met up while I was there. We are in Norseman now so a bit far to drive back. So be it.
    Fortunately there are still quite a few Prius battery packs available along the east coast and the Adelaide area, so enough bits can be collected at quite a reasonable price and save buying direct from Toyota and learning to live without a kidney and possibly a limb to cover the freight charges.

    T1 Terry
     
  20. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2007
    10,096
    4,795
    0
    Location:
    Clearwater, Florida
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    phildo thanks for the part numbers that will be great when I finally have to dig into mine. But Prolong has
    Really helped extend the life of mine. I found out the hard way I was doing just charging wrong.
    I used to just charge the pack for about 12 hours. That does nothing really so following advice on this site I Let the pack charge for about 25 hours and that was a world of difference in battery behavior. Really woke it up. Major improvement in pack balance,

    As far as the ecu damage we have seen that exact scenario many times. Looks like a blow torch came in on that orange connector.
    I see leaking caps those 2 big caps next to the connector but that’s not the issue with the explosion but it’s worth checking on a rebuild with an esr meter as part of a rebuild.

    I think the only way you can get that much flash damage is if the voltage polarity reversed suddenly which tends to happen with failing modules. I bet this damage is the loud pop people report with continued driving on a ground faulted battery by continued clearing of the obd code. Loud pop or explosion with bad smell.