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Please advise. TLDR ICE won't "on" drained new HV battery after misfire codes. New 12v too.

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Cimorene, Sep 14, 2023.

  1. Cimorene

    Cimorene Junior Member

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    Please bear with me as I had a very rough year so this 05 prius has been sitting for about a year and I really need to get it sold and out of my yard.

    Car was running rough July 2022. I live in Texas so it was super hot and any idling condition would drain HV battery and also sounded really bad like a repeated but not perfectly timed "shaking and upset" car sound.The car does and always has burned a lot of oil, but I checked it monthly and just accepted I'd have to add an extra quart every so often.

    I checked codes and got a misfire cyl 3. I changed that spark plug. Took it for a test drive and it just shut down. I got "bad HV battery codes" which didn't seem too off base because it's an older car, it's been hot, etc. I have I greentec come out and replace the HV battery and 12v battery. However, the car immediately starts running down the new hv battery until it dies.. They send a tech same day which I really appreciate and he puts in a new one. Same thing happens. They say I really need to take it to a dealership.

    I realized too late that the gas engine was not turning on and so I was basically just running down the brand new expensive HV battery. Life got rough for me after that and since I live out in the country with my daughter, I just had to shelve fixing the prius and get a different car to get my daughter to school which was weeks away. The car has been sitting since, but I would really like to fix it and sell it if possible or get it out of my front yard.

    So, I did have a friend come last year who was able to get codes after getting ICE or enough juice basically to get codes before it died the final time and I was out of money and time to have a working car. It did seem to make sense that a new HV battery was due because I had issues with Dr. Prius showing that my cells were failing. A friend tried to fix that and I thought maybe it wasn't successful long term so it would make sense to do a full HV change out. Plus it had been so hot and I replaced it a couple years prior. Definitely time and with the codes I got it did seem worth it to spend the money on an otherwise reliable car that I've loved. I was still getting 42 mpg and I love that car.

    One weird thing that occurred to me was that right before all of these problems I filled the tank up, but my car was pushing the nozzle out even when it wasn't filled and it did it repeatedly. I hate pumping gas so I kept forcing it to just get properly filled up and thought maybe it was the pumps fault. Maybe not though because I did eventually get a code that indicated there's an issue with my gas or gas tank or where fuel is stored?

    Codes I got at first
    * Cylinder misfire codes P0353 then I replaced all spark plugs and got new errors. I may have effed this up here, but I've done it before and I didn't think I did it horribly wrong. When I've done it before it was pretty easy and simple.

    Codes I got when it died
    * PA080
    * I can't remember the numbers it but the code that says "failed to start" essentially

    Codes I got when friend was able to get enough juice after dying to get codes part a
    * P0171 which was weird because it seemed to be related to possible fuel issues (and also the gas engine wont start)
    *P3190 Poor engine power. Here is where I tried to look at throttle body, maf sensor, and figure out why gas won't start.
    * P0456 Small Evap leak.

    Codes I got when friend was able to get enough juice after dying to use a scantool part b
    Throttle body codes that may be before or after I cleaned maf sensor and throttle body. I was very careful and nothing seemed dirty or off. Cleaning this stuff also didn't change the outcome so...

    * P0122 throttle position sensor ( i did learn that the TPS is part of the whole throttle body assembly which at the time was on backorder and 360ish from Toyota)
    * P0123 throttle position sensor
    * P0222 Throttle/Pedal Position Switch/Sensor B Circuit Low Input (I'll be honest here, I didn't understand how to use my multimeter to diagnose this from the service manual. I've never really used or understood how?)
    * P0223 Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor/Switch B Circuit High Input
    * P2135 Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor/Switch A / B Voltage Correlation

    Things I tried
    * New HV battery from greentec x2 when it died immediately after the new one
    * New 12v battery
    * New spark plug for slot 3
    * New ignition coil for slot 3 which I was unable to get the bank 3 code moved to. I mean I changed out 3 with 4 to see if I would get the same error, and it wouldnt move to the new bank
    * Cleaned throttle body
    * Cleaned maf sensor
    * New gas cap based on evap code leak

    How should i proceed? I am in the dfw area. Obviously I need an hv charging situation because I can't even start the car without draining the traction battery. I also have a trickle charger for the 12v ( I know this is probably dead at this point, but I can charge that) and at this point I haven't done anything else in a year, but both traction and 12v battery were new so that isn't an issue. I can buy a charger, I am a little lost on the best and most cost effective option to at least make sure the HV battery can get recharged if the gas isn't powering on to charge it.

    I am worried about the tps sensor being maybe the issue, but it's part of the whole throttle body assembly so I was hesitant to order that.and I also am unsure what might be the best way to start. I am so sorry this is a huge mess I'm asking for advice on, but anything you've got I'd really appreciate.It was also weird that t seemed that the last gas refill seemed to kick off problems with the pump ejecting itself even when I had 1/4 tank.

    I know that I need to charge the 12lv asap and also charge the hv.. Then I can attempt to troubleshoot why the gas engine isn't turning on to then charge the HV. My understanding is that the 12v kicks on a little power to start the lights and the idea of starting which should signal the gas part to start.. Then Gas should kick on which then is able to work alongside hybrid to charge the battery and then to also preserve gas by using the hybrid part. If the gas engine won't kick on then the hybrid battery depletes rapidly with each attempt to start.

    I'd really just appreciate some direction on where to move from here. I live in Johnson county in a pretty rural area so other than the dealership 40 min from me, I haven't had any real good options. Especially because the Burleson toyota will I'm sure be more than it's worth to have towed, diagnosed.

    I have techstream. Not on this laptop but I can set that up. I have a VCI cable. I have a good variety of tools or the ability to get more. I have muscle if I need it. I just need some direction. Thank you so much for reading.
     

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    #1 Cimorene, Sep 14, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2023
  2. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    You can probably donate this car and get a tax write off
     
  3. Cimorene

    Cimorene Junior Member

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    I don't have enough tax liability after all of my other deductions for that to even matter.
     
  4. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    then you should just sell it cheap, as a broken car. Don't throw money at it
     
  5. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    You wouldn't buy this throttle body new you take it off of another car hopefully that's kind of vehicle doesn't warrant that kind of cost The engine not starting is the problem I guess that's causing you all of your woes so that's what you need to get straightened out is the engine not starting poor engine power yeah because the engine's not starting usually that seems to be power related 12 volt and or HV battery if they're not up to snuff seems like nothing goes on. I just bought a car in Raleigh North Carolina 07 took a 12 volt to it put it in the car car started right up drove it 51 mi home next morning have HV battery shorting codes and all kinds of nonsense The battery look like hell the HV battery. Change that out and everything went away. I got a no start code one time after cleaning the throttle body because I didn't let it sit for a few minutes and make sure all the throttle body cleaner was dried up.
     
  6. Cimorene

    Cimorene Junior Member

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    I appreciate your sentiment, but I am still going to try to get it running. Do you have any advice on that front?
     
  7. Cimorene

    Cimorene Junior Member

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    You mean go to a junkyard and just take a TPS off another car? I'm fine with doing that, I just thought I had to get the whole thing. Good to know though that the throttle sensors can be that finicky.
     
  8. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Well if it was running before you let it sit, then it's usually not a big issue. I would check the basics

    1. Fuel
    2. batteries to make sure they are good
    3. clean the throttle body and MAF sensor

    But you should also look for rodent damage, that's usually what will kill a car while it sits. And of course, you can read the codes the car has stored, keep your guess work to a minimum
     
  9. Cimorene

    Cimorene Junior Member

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    1. Car should still be full

    2. I realize the batteries need to be recharged. The HV is dead. Any ideas on the most cost effective way to do that?

    3. in my post i explained I did this and it didn't change anything so that doesn't seem like it would help now. I took the whole throttle body out and babied it very carefully including the maf sensor with maf sensor cleaner.. The car was still not powering up the gas engine as I wrote above. Also it didn't appear dirty, but I diligently cleaned the butterfly throttle part maf sensor etc and did it all very carefully
     
  10. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Recharging the HV battery isn't going to help you if it keep draining it. Have you checked all your fuses? There is an EFI fuse that blows often for unknown reasons.

    Also if anyone tried to jump start this car and reverse polarity the cables, that too can cause lots of fuses to blow (not knowingly)
     
  11. Cimorene

    Cimorene Junior Member

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    As far as rodents, I know that is possible especially since Im in the country, but the car is right by my house within 5 feet of my front door and on my lawn. I have around 50 chickens that free range and they eat mice if they see them. At a certain point mice would need to move and I have none in my house plus the chickens are brutal killers.

    Is there anything you think I should check to see if there are mice? I know it is common, but I just don't see that as the issue. I have barn cats and too many predators where the car is since it's literally 5 ft from my front door.
     
  12. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    if this was on concrete and not grass, you would be able to see rat droppings on the floor, if they have been around the car. You can see inside the engine compartment, behind the glove compartment, and under your dash, look for any chewed wires.
     
  13. Cimorene

    Cimorene Junior Member

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    It will be drained as long as the gas engine isn't powering on. I need to be able to start and test the car while I'm attempting to diagnose the gas engine. which means the HV will get drained and in order to try effectively, I have to be able to charge it. Each start attempt takes power off the battery if the gas engine won't kick on. There is no way I think to just avoid the issue that it's not charged now, it needs to be charged, and if it takes a couple of tries after testing and repairing components related to gas, there needs to be a way to recharge the HV. Everything else is a non-starter. I can't test the car unless I recharge the HV, I can't get codes either, I also can't charge it and then deplete it while I try to fix something. If the gas engine doesn't start I'll be fucked over and over again which is what I already went through
     
  14. Cimorene

    Cimorene Junior Member

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    I have looked and there's no evidence of that
     
  15. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    have you checked all your fuses? Yes you would need a hv battery charger, this is the crappy part of a Prius, you will only get a few tries (maybe 15 to 20) before the battery can't turn the engine anymore
     
  16. Cimorene

    Cimorene Junior Member

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    I did check all fuses
     
  17. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    No I have Prius that sit for three or four months and when I put a 12 volt battery in them it is very common for the car to start right up so there's not a whole lot of draining the HV battery unless you're just going to leave it sitting there in the ready mode for a long time for nothing this is not like a car with a starter where you can just hit a key see the motor start and turn it off so there's no reason to be leaving the hybrid battery ready for long periods of time generally just trying to back the car up 15 ft puts the ice engine on very quickly and usually it'll stay running for about 60 to 90 seconds if it hasn't been on for a long time and then it turns off and then everybody goes oh my ice engine doesn't run but 2 minutes so this is important stuff to know. The throttle body that your diligently cleaning is a sealed system other than cleaning the butterfly and the hole that it covers to get out any carbon buildup dirty gas bill whatever no problem The MAF sensor is in your air cleaner if you're standing in front of the car to Philips screws and a plug remove it You want to take it out to clean it not try to clean it while it's sitting in the air cleaner path when you take it out you'll see that there's a few ways inside of the unit that need to be cleaned the q-tip works well with throttle body cleaner making sure your plugs aren't fouled into oblivion is the Prius runs pretty cold so when it starts to burn oil and do whatever that tends to pile up on the plugs very easily and just sit there because the car runs so cool it doesn't really like the self-clean and burn off that well or something so you clean them plugs or replace them by hand I have seen plugs come out of some of these generation twos that I wouldn't even allow on the floor of my shop but eh..
     
  18. Cimorene

    Cimorene Junior Member

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    The maf sensor seemed fine. I used the proper cleaner after taking it out and made sure it was able to dry and I was gentle. with a q tip.

    The last time the car was started all plugs were just replaced and there were no more codes relating to misfires. Only codes related to throttle position sensor and that EVAP leak. I did replace the gas cap to check that. I guess today I will charge up the 12v and see what happens after that. I'm looking into ways to build a grid charger, but the write up here (slightly different supplies for Gen2 in a prius chat thread somewhere) https://projekt.com/locouki/Website/insight/V2-grid-charger-discharger.html says that if the HV is discharged lower than 100v which may be the case, then I need to approach it differently. Apparently the power supply won't charge it and I need to use a 12v battery charger to get it up high enough for the Meanwell to work.

    >
    Charge dead battery to >100 volts

    Note: If you just discharged the battery to below, 100 volts just disconnect the load and the battery will quickly rise above 100 volts within an hour.

    The Mean Well power supply will not charge the battery if it is below 100 volts because a protection mode called "Hiccup mode" kicks in. The charger will power back up when the voltage rises to more than 100 volts by switching the charger OFF for a few seconds and then back ON again..

    What this means is if your battery has sat around unused for a long enough time that the total pack voltage is below 100 volts you will have to charge into the battery to raise the pack voltage a little above 100 volts at a charge rate of 350 ma or less.

    If the battery pack is below 12 volts I would recommend that you use either a variable low voltage DC supply or a normal 12 volt battery charger to wake the battery up. By using a variable 12 volt power supply I could keep the charge current to 100 ma by slowly adjusting the voltage higher or lower over about a 1 hour time.

    If using a 12 volt battery charger, I would wire a normal low wattage 12 volt car light bulb (for instance a Philips #1895, 12v, 3.8 watt bulb) in series with the positive lead of the charger to limit the charge current to wake the IMA battery up. Don't use a stop light or headlight bulb. They will pass way too much current through a less than 12 volt battery pack.

    The bulb should light up fairly bright at the beginning of the wake up period and get dimmer as the IMA battery comes up to 12 volts.

    Even a regulated, low current 12 volt phone charger might work without a bulb. Naturally be aware of the polarity of the connections.

    Once the battery comes up to near 12 volts I would remove the series bulb and connect the 12 volt charger directly to the IMA battery for another hour. There are chemical reactions going on at even that low per cell voltage.
     
  19. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    Am I reading this wrong, or is the gas 1 year old? If this is the usual ethanol laden consumer gas then it is probably has lots of water in it now, and that could prevent the motor from running, or at least running normally. Unless you put gas stabilizer in before parking the car for that extended period. Unfortunately, as I understand it, draining a Prius gas tank is not so easy. People have suggested just running the fuel pump and collecting it from the fuel rail. See this post and subsequent ones.

    How to Siphon Gas? | Page 2 | PriusChat
     
  20. Cimorene

    Cimorene Junior Member

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    At this point yes, but at the time it wasn't. It was brand new.