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Possibility of Repair of mg2 stator winding

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by MGpwr, Mar 9, 2018.

  1. MGpwr

    MGpwr Member

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    I have a transaxle that developed the code for high voltage insulation leakage, along with subcodes 526 and 613; this resulted from, supposedly, an impact to the bottom of the t/a by some road debris. What was odd to me was that the code had been cleared and stayed away for several days while I did brief test-drives around the neighborhood.

    Then it got rainy for a few days and the code came back along with some extra whining from the inverter, so I went ahead and put the t/a out of the '09 into the dd-car, also swapped the inverters (since the one on the '09 had a 'clean bill of health', so to speak).

    I'm now wondering if it might be worthwhile to pull mg2's stator in the failed t/a, and if nothing looks burned try baking it to drive any moisture out of it and then put a few coats of epoxy insulating varnish all over the windings, and bake it again. I've never done this before, only read about it, so wondering is anyone here familiar with temps and such necessary to do this successfully (probably in the kitchen oven).
     
    #1 MGpwr, Mar 9, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    welcome!
    wouldn't it be easier to put in a salvage tranny?
     
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  3. William Redoubt

    William Redoubt Senior Member

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    As a former "motor" (that means electric power) mechanic I have diagnosed and rebuilt many types of failed motors, from tiny fractional HP units to 200 HP pump and fan motors used in massive industrial plants. You could try the spay and bake, but I doubt that it would work. Motors are generally dipped during manufacture, not sprayed. And once a short or open occurs (and you have to know which issue you have), the damage is usually done and it will not be evident. The most likely place for a fault to occur would be at the point the copper winding exits the stator. You could open it up and see if the damage is visible and try to repair it if it is, but chances are it will not be accessible. Just get a new stator, if you can find one. Or swap the whole unit out.

    If the fault is related to moisture, maybe it is related to a compromised case, letting water in where none should be. That might throw off the code. I recall reviewing the cooling system on MG2 and I think the unit is sealed from moisture and the cooling occurs via a flow-through heat exchanger. If the unit has a winding to winding short, I would suspect very high temperatures. A winding to ground short would probably result in a fire. If it is moisture ingress, you might be able to dry it out and save it by sealing the damaged area.

    At any rate, that stator would bring a nice price at a recycling yard.
     
  4. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    I think he wants to experiment?
     
  5. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    The coil field is extremely dense. It’s pretty impossible to repair. The wires are very stiff and wound and impossible to deal with. The area will be scorched if it’s a blowout or if there’s an open would be impssible
    To find or get too in the coil field.
    Moisture would not throw a ground fault. The stator is very sealed.

    There was another poster who had the same code and like you was able to drive around for few days
    Without incurring that code like the fault was intermittent. Can u pull the bad trans aprt and look at the mg coil?

    I refer you to the Weber School videos on YouTube that do a very detailed teardown of the G2/G3
    Transaxles.
     
  6. MGpwr

    MGpwr Member

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    Thanks!

    I did put a salvage tranny in, I posted a bit about it in the newbie section. Now I'm hoping to get my salvage vehicle back into operational condition if possible - it'll never be a daily driver, but I like having all the spare parts working, if possible.

    I'll try to attach a pic.
     
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  7. MGpwr

    MGpwr Member

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    Thanks for your reply, I wish I had some of your experience in motors. One of the reasons I'm thinking it may be, at present, still repairable is the fact that my fluke 117 shows infinite (over 40Mohms, anyway) resistance between any phase and ground, even directly after it set the insulation fault code. I suspect I could 'see' the problem if I had a megger to test it with, I still may end up buying one just so I can test it myself, thanks for pointing out where the damage would be most likely to occur.

    As far as the t/a case goes, I can't find any dents, or suspicious looking areas, but I'm just guessing that the insulation got perhaps somewhat 'thinned out' due to the winding's inertia at moment of impact, and now it just needs a bandaid put on its boo-boo, so to speak. (Later edit: Or maybe the seal between motor and coolant passages was breached; Thank you Mr. Redoubt, another thing I'll be looking for once I crack it open)

    There's some great utube videos showing all the different Gen Prii drive systems that's put out by Weber Automotive that gives a good overview and some indepth info if you want a closer look.

    I went by a motor shop the other day and they would want 250 bucks to do it, the guy said their oven burns about that much gas whenever they turn it on. (Oh yeah, the price is if I bring the stator in by itself)
     
    #7 MGpwr, Mar 10, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
  8. MGpwr

    MGpwr Member

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    Yeah, exactly, plus I'd like to show Toyota how to save a customer a little money &^).
     
  9. MGpwr

    MGpwr Member

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    That's what they have motor rewinding shops for!

    Thats the plan, just gonna wait for a bit better weather since I don't have a garage.

    Yes! Those videos are awesome, I've watched all the Gen2 ones at least twice.

    Thanks.
     
  10. William Redoubt

    William Redoubt Senior Member

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    One thing for sure is that if a motor shop had a stator with a suspected fault it would just burn it off and rewind it. I know the coils for these motors are machine wound and inserted into the stator slots. It is possible that it would be impossible to rewind it without the original machine. Don't let the motor shop guy drink from your pool of ignorance on the burn down. Those open flame ovens are huge, and they burn off 10s of stators at a time. Divide by 20 or 30 and that is the price to burn yours. That guy probably was thinking there was a fresh bottle of scotch in the deal for him if he could rope you in.

    After thinking about it, maybe the fault is being thrown from some other component hooked to the windings that is stimulating the fault code. I don't know how the code is being detected, but would be interested to know.
     
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  11. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    I don't know which search engine(s) most of yall use, the one I use gave at least 5 or 6 links to this query.
    prius high voltage insulation leakage with subcodes 526 and 613

    and the first one I thought looled interesting brought up this page and this lovely page blocker
    auto-adBlocker.jpg LOL
    funny thing is I haven't enabled an ad-blocker, so it must not like one of my other firefox customized settings for getting rid of coolies
    but I'm not gonna spend ANY time tryin to figure out which one....
    And the link to the page underneath that message
    2004-2008 Toyota Prius with code P3009 or P0AA6 and info code 526, 613, 614 | TOYO Headquarters
    I can see some of the content underneath the " ad-blocker on " notification blocker thingy - and it looks informative
    so I'll offer it up for any interested.

    Just my thoughts since I don't have any real world experience with the OP's particular scenario, hell I haven't even gotten up to the OP to fully read through it yet.
    I imagine you're going to need a mongoose/MVCI and techstream after reassembling anyway. So's why not get what you think you might need before hand and take a look at what a dealers shop sees when they get in the High Voltage Isolation code(s), unless your following someone that's done the grunt work already and take your chances that yours is at least close to what theirs turned out to be..
    As another member posted in another High Voltage Isolation thread last week - it can be fun and games to trace they out - because once the juice starts dripping out of the system the low voltage side of the system tends to misbehave as well. P00AA6 trying to figure it out | PriusChat

    edit: rain and wet snow have not so interesting an effect of the hybrid system.
    You mentioned the 09 donner but not the year/model of either your donner or project.
    Faults come and go but the ECU keeps track of them and freeze data till you clear all,
    then you get new codes and new freeze data and so on and so forth...

    2 me, it sounds a lot like traction pack "wack a mole" ( pun about a mole notwithstanding) syndrome
    on the high voltage side in the front of the car.
     
    #11 vvillovv, Mar 10, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
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  12. MGpwr

    MGpwr Member

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    Had to delete the linkage cause I'm so new.

    Anyway, thanks, I wasn't sure about the proper 'P'-code, P0AA6 must be what I was getting. I do have techstream setup on a laptop, (and the scans I did saved on there somewhere), but knew calling it the HV insulation fault along with the subcodes would identify the problem sufficiently.

    I was a lurker here for the last several months so I'm already setup and a little familiar with using techstream, so that's covered; as far as the rest, from the reading I've done, if it's only mg2 that has a problem I think it might be repairable, if mg1 has a problem the t/a would have to be disassembled too far for a non-transmission tech to put it back together, (special tools and expensive shims needed) I'm still leaning toward getting a cheap insulation testing meter, saw a few in the 40 to 60 dollar range - anyone have any experience with any of them?

    Just saw your edit, will try to respond; the donor is the '09, w/183k miles and the recipient an '06 w/144k miles, w/ about 100 miles since the swap. So far so good, I love how the Prius drives, surprisingly enough, it seems pretty zippy...
    I don't know what models they are, the '09 has SKS and mudflaps and cruise control, that the '06 only has cruise control.

    As to rain and snow, I'm in western NC where they do use salt on the roads occasionally, but it hadn't been driving during the times there might have been salt around, but thanks for the reminder.
     
    #12 MGpwr, Mar 10, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
  13. MGpwr

    MGpwr Member

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    I think I remember reading something about a monitor circuit in the inverter, I'll try to find it again.
    Guess I really need an insulation tester - otherwise I'm just guessing.
     
  14. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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  15. MGpwr

    MGpwr Member

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    Thanks, very interesting about how the P0AA6 code generally won't be set until the t/a is warmed up...also about the mg1 having a different code for HV isolation fault, maybe I won't need to buy a megger after all. I hadn't checked out
    the video in your first link cause my puter (new-to-me) isn't set up to play videos yet, but the blog post is excellent.
     
  16. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    You went from baking it to epoxy coatings to baking it again to now you can get it rewound.

    Great! Go get it rewound. You'll be the first.
     
  17. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Wth are you talking about?

    I got huge open flames ovens and 20 by 30 and fresh scotch. Its a bad transaxle loony tunes theirs 40 of them on ebay for $300 delivered.
    Probably cheaper locally for the other nut job.
     
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  18. MGpwr

    MGpwr Member

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    Edthefox says "You went from baking it to epoxy coatings to baking it again to now you can get it rewound"

    No I didn't.

    Now, where'd that bottle of scotch get to...
     
    #18 MGpwr, Mar 11, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2018
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  19. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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  20. MGpwr

    MGpwr Member

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    Thanks for the suggestion, I like VLC and it is preinstalled on the OS I installed (linux Mint 18.0) on my newly acquired machine. However, I still need to figure out how to get the videos onto my computer without having javascript enabled; now I'm having to learn the newest Firefox browser, ver. 58. Hopefully one of the addons won't require javascrapt, just have to spend a bit of time looking into it - it seems like every time I get a good setup then I get an update and it makes my setup useless again.

    Does anyone have some good ways to get vids without using Javascript?