Prime Total and Electric Range Question

Discussion in 'Prime Fuel Economy & EV Range' started by JackJ, May 28, 2017.

  1. JackJ

    JackJ New Member

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    This is a two part question related to range.

    1. Total range

    I've had my Prime six months now. I've filled up with gas six times, only when the tank is very low, not half full. Every time I fill up, I'm getting an estimated total range on the dashboard of 450-475 miles. How is that even close to being right?

    11.3 gallons x 54 mpg = 610 miles (add in 25 electric and you get 635)

    That's based on Toyota's own estimates, so even if that's generous, I think it should at least say 550 miles.

    What total range is everyone else showing when they fill up?

    2. Electric range

    When I bought the car the estimated electric range was about 25-26 miles, which matched Toyota's estimates. At some point it went up to 28, 29 and even 30, topping out around 30.6. Now I get between 28-30 on most full charges. Needless to say I've been completely satisfied with the electric range I've been getting, which is 22-25 miles in real world driving; a mix of street, freeway, stop and go, hills, AC, etc, even when the initial range shows 29 miles.

    The question: Who are these people that say they're showing 35-40 mile electric range, (with screencaps) and what exactly are they doing? Do they live on top of a hill and use electric going down only and gas going up, and therefore the computer is TRICKED into thinking it has more battery capacity?

    Just curious because I don't believe the battery could actually get you that far, and want to know if they're really getting more range, (I doubt it) or are living in a dream world. (I think)
     
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  2. Insirt

    Insirt Junior Member

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    I'm not sure what the deal is with the total range, I've made some trips of just over 400 miles and had over a quarter tank left and I still have a listed total range of barely over 500 miles. I think it has to do with the calculation excluding the last 1.3 or so gallons when the gas light comes on such that 54 x 10 = 540 is closer to what it estimates. I've had the gas light come on with the estimated distance left to be about 18 miles but with over a gallon left it would really be at least 60.

    Regarding the electric range mine lists at least 32.something miles if I was really eager to get home the night before with my best being just over 39 miles when I've spent the past day or so being very careful driving and with AC. It is hilly where I live but the weather is still pretty mild so often during the day the climate control has "all the bars" of efficiency and at night I'll often leave the AC off which I think is what helps extend my range



    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  3. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    I think the gas range is before the light turns on, and I think the light turns on with about two gallons left.

    I've actually driven over 30 miles and still had 3 miles of range showing, on a slightly uphill route. I once drove 29 miles on an 80% charge. You have to drive in ideal conditions and in a smooth, efficient way to get range like that.
     
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  4. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Previous models set aside a couple gallons as safety margin.

    Actual fuel consumption in any car is quite highly variable depending on many conditions that the car cannot possibly know it advance, and that the customer service folks cannot adequately explain to drivers. So, in order to manage customer expectations and avoid furious customer complaints about running out of fuel in remote areas in lousy conditions when the variables were in the unfavorable direction, a fairly significant safety margin is needed. In my Gen3 Prius and most of my previous cars, this margin has been roughly 100-ish miles.

    Is that 54 mpg in your calculation, from your actual computed MPG for that particular refill, or did you just grab an EPA figure? The car computes estimated range based on your recent history, not based on any fixed number or rating. Therefore, you should see the refilled estimate vary from weather, from seasonal fuel blends, from tire swaps, and from how your recent driving patterns vary (e.g. family road trips produce different MPGs than normal daily work commutes).
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    likely the calculation is 9 gallons x 54 mpg = 495 miles, or something like that. are you calculating 54 at the pump, or is that the display mpg?
     
  6. ArcPrime

    ArcPrime Active Member

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    I didn't charge my battery for first week I got better than 54 MPG.
     
  7. 34Hupp

    34Hupp 1934 Hupmobile - Americas 1st Aerodynamic

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    39.1.JPG
    I'm one of those "Dreamers" you are referring to, getting over 38 miles of estimated EV Range. I believe EV Range is a function of driving Technique (your hypermiling skills and being able to use them without impacting other drivers), driving Conditions (road speed, traffic, hills, stop and go, etc), and Weather (ambient temperature, rain or snow, heat pump use). The EV range estimate appears to be historical based on the recent trips for the car. This is my third Prius (2006, 52.3mpg over 96Kmiles, 2012 PIP, 84.8mpg over 46K miles) so I've picked up some tricks on getting the most out of the Prius. I make it a "game" every time I get into the Prius, trying to learn something new, or save 'just a bit more' EV range. I got the Prime in January, in the middle of our Northeast winter. My EV range started around 22, and then would vary around 25 to 28, with a mix of highway and suburb driving (and an unhappy wife caused by very little heat pump use). Now that we have reached some milder temps, my EV range has gone up significantly (39.1 today). I try to stay off the highway, anticipate stops to maximize coasting (without disturbing other cars), use the "B Mode" to control my rate of deceleration, accelerate "softly" (again, without angering other drivers), and concentrate on maintaining a constant speed (no pulse and glide). I have a once a week trip of 32.2 miles that I can make with over 9 miles of (estimated) EV Range remaining. As for your question on gas range, I can't be much help other than providing another "data point". My range currently shows 484 miles (with full 39.1 charge) on the original dealer tank and the gauge still indicating "full". The ICE has been through 4 warm-up cycles, so I doubt even a gallon has been used. The ICE has not turned on in over 1113 miles (this is becoming a concern, and probably warrants a new post to discuss "lack of ICE break-in" concerns).
     
  8. Jordango

    Jordango Junior Member

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    I've had my car just over 5 weeks and charge it daily. Seems like my range has leveled out to around 31 miles. My commute to work is 27 miles, so I have a few miles left when I head home each night.
     
  9. CaliforniaPrius

    CaliforniaPrius Active Member

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    507 miles when filled up. EV range is variable. Local EV: 26 miles, hwy EV: 20 miles
     
  10. stevepea

    stevepea Senior Member

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    Just tonight, I averaged 34.4 miles on the EV:
    I went 24.3 miles and still had 10.1 miles left when I got back home. This was real world driving (roundtrip, both directions in EV), However... it certainly was not a typical "mix" of driving. It was all city driving... in the evening... mostly on one long residential-ish street with posted speed limits of 30, 35, or 40 -- and I followed the speed limits.

    Here's what I did:

    (a) I did the entire trip in "B" Mode (with regenerative braking that extends the battery's range). Note: I don't want to get into the argument here of B vs D for EV City Driving -- there's a whole other thread talking about Driving in B mode -- but personally, for this type of EV-Mode driving, I've found "B" to extend the battery longer than D+more braking, and used it tonight again to get these results.
    (b) Always kept to the speed limit (30, 35, or 40, depending what city I was going through). Never went above the speed limit of 40.
    (c) Was very gentle with my starts/accelearation.

    It also made my kw/h rating for today jump to 5.4.

    But while this was "real world" driving, it was the best possible conditions to get good EV range, and not really the true mix that most of us have to do. Had I gotten on the freeway for instance (as I do most of the time for other drives) that EV number would have gone down considerably, no matter how careful I was.

    Though very general, I kind of consider it like this: maybe 20 miles for fast freeway, and 30+ for city or start-and-stop rush hour.

    For longer drives in HV (using some gas) mode, usually fast-moving freeway trips, I usually get between 57-63MPG as long as I keep it under 68mph. The faster you go, the worse your MPG. This is for generally flat (Southern Calif) driving, not hilly, generally longer drives (at least 20 miles). One person, no A/C.
     
    #10 stevepea, Jun 8, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017
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  11. bluzfan35

    bluzfan35 Junior Member

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    I can only give EV info since there is less then 20 miles on the ICE. I like having the battery % showing because i can see miles left on the HUD. Work is exactly 8 miles away so 16 miles round trip. Half is at 45 MPH and the other half 55 MPH. The elevation at work is 150 ft higher then at home so going to work is up hill and home is down hill. Trip to work the temperature is 60-70 no AC and i use 21%-23% of the battery, which comes out to be 34-38 miles. Trip home temperatures are 80-95 AC on and i use 30%-32% of the battery, which is 25-27 miles. Total round trip 52%-55% of battery, which comes out to 29-31 EV miles a charge. I tested this by charging every other day at first and would run out of EV with 2-3.5 miles left.. Once summer is over and I don't have to use the AC I think i will be able to charge every other day and still have a couple of EV miles left.
     
  12. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    I had to drive almost 30 miles up a 400 foot climb on mostly 55, 60 and 65 highway, and I made it with almost 3 miles to spare.

    Fantastic Prime Mileage | Page 3 | PriusChat

    I did it with smooth application of power and an attempt to avoid regeneration wherever feasible.
     
  13. ArcPrime

    ArcPrime Active Member

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    I have a 37-38 miles commute one way. When my battery is fully charged it estimates 29.1 miles. However when I drove freeway speed 55-65 miles estimated miles dropped 3-4 miles right away. When I need to slow down/stop I lift my foot of the gas paddle. Looks like when I applied the brake car will charge battery a little mire than just let the car cruise. Question: Am I trading in my break pad for more EV miles?
     
  14. alexcue

    alexcue Active Member

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    unless you are stomping on the brakes, I believe you are just regenerating up until 7mph? (that's what I remember reading somewhere). The transition is so smooth you won't notice the switch.
     
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  15. Washingtonian

    Washingtonian Active Member

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    I know that an ICE needs to be broken in when new so after 1 or 2 thousand miles it will run smoother and more efficiently. Is our battery the same? The reason I ask is that when new it would show about 26 miles available after a charge. That gradually increased so now, with just over 1000 miles it shows slightly over 30 miles after charging it at home. This is the mileage shown on the HUD when leaving my house.
     
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Engines are mostly pre-broken in. I believe the main culprit that needs breaking in is the tires. Rolling resistance drops with wear. The EPA rules for fuel economy testing dictate how much wear the tires can have; about 4000 miles worth at most.

    Range and distance to empty displays are estimates based upon past fuel economy. Things can be getting broken in, or you are just getting better at driving your new car efficiently.
     
  17. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Batteries do need breaking in, but it's pretty much over by about five cycles.
     
  18. Washingtonian

    Washingtonian Active Member

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    So what you are saying is that the estimate is not a measure of how many kilowatt hours or amp hours are available in the battery, but just an estimate on how many miles I got in the recent past. Useful info, but not as useful as I expected. This is my first hybrid, so I am learning a lot. My most recent trip was to Hurricane Ridge at Olympic National Park. Included fifteen miles uphill in hybrid mode, then back downhill using B. Gained 15 miles of EV then so the trip meter said when I returned home after the 174 mile trip that I got 75.2 mpg.
     
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  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    And that was likely done as part of the manufacturing process of the pack.
     
  20. joachimz

    joachimz Senior Member

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    Define "Batteries do need breaking in" ... google search reveals that the most common definition of that is to fully charge/discharge for several cycles - we as Prime users CANNOT do that, we are limited to 15-85 or so % of the battery's capacity, so if the traction battery needs a break in, i agree with @Trollbait.
    There is extensive circuitry in the battery, the EV range needs to learn driving style etc and that takes several cycles, and varies, just like with a regular hybrid or ICE, the "miles to empty" learns and adjusts
     
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