Retro-fitting The Advanced Tech Pack

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Accessories and Modifications' started by hayden55, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. hayden55

    hayden55 Member

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    Recently I've been studying for some self-driving car tech and I've realized that the Third-gen Prius is actually fairly optimal for being adapted to level 2 autonomy (basic autopilot with human supervision). But my dilemma is I have a 2010 Prius II without ATP. Womp Womp...
    So the $4500 Advanced Technology Package consisted of these abilities we need:
    1. Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (DRCC),
    2. Pre-Collision System (PCS),
    3. Lane Keep Assist (LKA).
    So my questions are:
    1. How do I retrofit this package? *Cost-effectively*
    - for the most part besides sensors, wiring harnesses, and buttons I can make mounts and source bolts from fastenal for cheaper than what toyota wants for bolts and parts of that nature.
    - part numbers, forum post, etc...
    2. What is the difference between GIII ATP and GIV TSS-P in what the systems can do?
     
    #1 hayden55, Dec 18, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  2. hayden55

    hayden55 Member

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    Correct me if I'm wrong but the system is made up of a wave radar sensor plate, and a lane-keeping assist camera? I also see multiple part numbers too which makes me wonder what is compatible. I haven't seen any part numbers but I assume you need wiring harnesses, and switches to swap out the switch blanks in my car?
    Individual parts that I see:
    Radar kit::
    1. some sort of radar compatible Toyota emblem. Part#?
    2. Long Bracket 88215-47010
    3. Bolts w/ washers 90119-06911
    4. Short Bracket 88215-47020
    5. Bolts 90119-06508
    6. Radar plate 88210-47020
    *differing number is the last two of the radar plate. some say 20 or 40 or 70 or 90 etc... Which is correct?
    Lane Keeping::
    1: Lane Departure System Camera 86460-47010

    Feel free to correct all wrong info.
     
    #2 hayden55, Dec 18, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  3. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    No camera on GIII that I'm aware of. But Pearl S doesn't have LKA, so maybe there is a camera for that.

    Cost effective? Sell your car and buy one with those options. Otherwise it will cost you big time.
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    sounds like a fun project, all the best and please keep us posted!(y)
     
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  5. hayden55

    hayden55 Member

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    Unfortunately in my current car I would lose more money upgrading than retro-fitting.
    Alright from what I've seen it does have have the camera. This video and my owners manual are pretty informative.

    So this informs me that the car has everything it needs to have the system function on the interstate.
    1. Using the LKA camera to monitor lane markers and the steering torque control the system will center the vehicle in the lane using small torque inputs to the steering rack to keep the car in the center of the lane.
    2. DRCC will keep an eye on cars ahead with its on board radar system and control the car's distance ahead by adjusting speed and once the car ahead clears out it will re-assume target speed.
    3. Also a caveat is you must be traveling at least 50 mph and DRCC must be enabled for LKA to convert from LDW.
    4. Once you get these to function, the comma eon w/ panda can communicate with the oem systems and take control above 50 mph and steer the car.
     
    #5 hayden55, Dec 18, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  6. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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  7. hayden55

    hayden55 Member

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    Well for anybody reading trying to convert... 99% of the parts are available in great shape and cheap but the two problems you will run into is having to source two main harnesses for the engine bay and interior. Those two alone are extremely hard to find from the low number of cars equipped, and if you buy new its probably gonna add up to 5 grand for these two pieces.
     
    #7 hayden55, Dec 19, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
  8. hayden55

    hayden55 Member

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    EXTREMELY helpful post! +1
    Does anybody know if the steering angle sensitive steering module will function on a non pre-collision system equipped car? It would be interesting if it would work because you could then try and map out a signal to get it to send torque to the rack and would enable you to design your own lka system.
     
  9. Danny3xd

    Danny3xd Active Member

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    Cool project, Hayden!

    Just a thought but for something like a harness. Wouldn't a junkyard be a great source? Almost certainly was working at time of demise.

    Newly exposed, nonrusted metal would be an indication of time exposed to the weather and sitting there.

    Might, could get it for scrap prices.
     
  10. hayden55

    hayden55 Member

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    This is a great idea! I've actually considered this and have looked at insurance and salvage auctions. The only problem is usually... the airbag has gone off and in the pictures available the airbag is covering the steering wheel controls and I can't even tell if the car is equipped with the system I need or not. Womp womp...
     
  11. hayden55

    hayden55 Member

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    Also does anybody know the distance to which the oem drcc system follows the cars? The link given from the custom ACC was cool but it didn't really give enough follow time compared to accepted standards (2 sec trailing time). So at 70mph his system would only allow a 1.6sec follow time. I'm sure thats probably similar to real world experience though. But if the kit was to be replicated insurance and safety people wouldn't be happy that the system wasn't able to follow at a safe distance at highway speeds.
     
  12. Danny3xd

    Danny3xd Active Member

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    Many junk yards will let ya pull your own parts.

    So ya could look beforehand. A lot cheaper, too.

    I haven't bought a new 12V battery in 20 yrs.
     
  13. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    A major wire harness from a junkyard almost has to be a pull-it-yourself part. A lot of tedious disassembly to get to it, it's usually clipped down like every seven inches, and for some mystery-of-the-universe reason, every single clip will be of a different design that makes you figure out from scratch how to unclip it intact. You'd have to really want it to pay the salvage yard's hourly rate to pull it for you.

    Toyota mentions in the New Car Features manual that they started building their big harnesses with a a wire rope core and a pulling handle, so that when scrapping a car, they can be pulled out quickly on a hook from a crane, no fussing with all the little clips. That wouldn't leave it in a reusable state though.

    -Chap
     
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  14. hayden55

    hayden55 Member

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    Progress update:
    Have completely mapped out the OEM DRCC and LKA wiring diagrams for each system and the interconnects (mostly understand it, on paper it always seems easy). The main point is that the base models have a base harness and then cars with the pre-crash safety system have more wires added into the same base harness to accommodate the extra systems and some systems will have different connectors. Also, for example the steering control module is replaced with unit that can send and receive more input so I will have to adapt the old plug to wire into the new module plus add 10 more wires for the PCSS specific steering control system.
    So now I could sit down and wire the harness I need after I take my two wiring diagrams I drew out to simplify and redraw into one large wiring diagram. It's nice that each pin on the diagram for each component is also labeled and each plug on the PCSS system is numbered. So when I look at the new PCSS components I know what each pin does. Now makes me think I might wanna talk to someone over at Denso and see if they can hook me up with some male plugs.
    My original diagram of the DRCC system was in black and white with an index for color codes, and the lka system was in color with color codes for each wire. Ideally, I can find an old computer program I used to use in school to map out circuits and draw the system once again. Then hopefully If I source each OEM part I need for cheap I can buy a spool of each oem wire color and have an identical oem wiring harness. Kind of... mostly where technicians can understand what I added to the harnesses.
    Also cars with DRCC connect their cc buttons directly to the driving support ecu and ends up nipping the old connection to the pmc ecu so hopefully I can get this all figured out and get everything to talk to each other. I'd hate to add an expensive potato retrofit to my car and lose cruise control. *nervous laugh*
    Main parts I need:
    PCSS steering control module
    PCSS display (adds in support to display the lka systems functions)
    PCSS cancel switch assembly
    Yaw Rate Sensor Assembly
    Driving Support ECU
    Lane Recognition Camera Sensor (LRCS)
    Steering Pad Switch Assembly
    Radar Sensor plate

    But I also have the want in the back of my mind to adapt the base level equipment and use better and cheaper aftermarket components to make an aftermarket lka/acc system especially since the acc system has been done before... it just needs a better range system for safer high-speed driving.

    Pros of the OEM system: the system is already laid out, has built-in logic for sensor function already figured out, I can copy the OEM system to see if works then move to level 2 adaptation, it would definitely add value to the car. haha
    Cons of the OEM system: Only works at 50mph+ while DRCC and LKA both have to be active (while new hondas can work down to under 20 mph) expensive, higher chance of buying at least a $1000-1500 potato system, radar sensors are annoying, not really re-creatable for someone else who reads this (emphasis on the diy wiring harness), especially if the used part source dries up and they have to buy new on certain parts (usually ~10x more expensive), still would have to use breadboards for some over the top pin heavy connections, still has no level 2 support but it could basically be implemented by reading the oem obd2 port and also acting like its the oem LRCS and tell the oem system to adapt to road conditions with their own original oem programming (steering aggressiveness, oem limits for each component etc...).

    Pros of an aftermarket system: ACC is already figured out for around $400 versus ~900; avionic lidar cameras are fuzz-buster friendly; more wallet-friendly, some items are often way simpler, some non PCSS components could be adapted to take inputs from an outside source and adapt to input (thinking all I would need is the OEM PCSS steering module), I think comma ai unplugs the thousand dollar (LRCS) lol so only having to buy the comma EON as my LRCS would be nice.
    Cons: Largely a one man support system; missing logic and brake control; still might have to buy and adapt the PCSS steering control module, yaw sensor.

    But for the most part since the comma kit isn't plug in play on either it may be best to go for the simpler and more efficient system.
    A system comprising off a diy ACC system (lidar sensor, arduno), adapted PCSS steering module, Yaw rate sensor assembly, and a comma eon is pretty dang attractive. Comma picks up on road condition input and outputs reaction info to the arduino which can use the yaw sensor and adapted steering rack to center the car in the lane with appropriate torque input, and since the arduino is also controlling speed and following distance it can send signal to the acc system at the same time. Con is nobody has integrated the braking system into their aftermarket acc system so I'll have to spend extra time on that as well. Also a benefit to this clean slate system is we aren't hard coded to be going at least 50 mph for the system to work, but con is the oem system somehow works up to 112mph... ahahaha. Thats an aggressive system with a badass front detection system.
     
    #14 hayden55, Dec 20, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
  15. Offline

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    If by some miracle you get your modifications to work, it will still be lower tech than the more advanced versions of the same technologies that are standard on almost all 2018 Toyota - even the least expensive ones..

    I assume that you are able to have your 2010 Prius out of commission for a few months while you make your modifications. And maybe you should hire a test driver to test the results the first time since your modifications involve braking, acceleration and steering systems - preferably someone dressed in a helmet and Nomex suit who is experienced at crashing ... like when a friend had his home-built 2-passenger plane flown for the first time by a licensed test pilot!

    Seriously, what you want to do is extraordinarily difficult, may require very deep pockets, an electrical engineering degree and substantial experience.

    I've seen only one reported case where someone has added any of the OEM technologies you want to a vehicle made by Toyota. That was nearly ten years ago when the owner of an early (2008?) Lexus LS600h in another country was able to partially add LKA by installing the steering wheel button controls from a newer (2009?) LS600h. His LS600h already had PCS and a forward facing camera. While his LKA mostly functioned, he was not successful in enabling the dashboard display for it - at least not during the time I was monitoring the thread about it on a Lexus forum. I suspect that this LS600h owner had some pretty deep pockets since his car wasn't very old and the U.S. market version of it retailed at over US$125,000.

    I can certainly understand your interest in having all this safety technology but it's not worth spending much to do it. When these features and more were made standard on the 2018, vehicle retail prices increased only by $500 to $1,200 depending on model.
     
  16. hayden55

    hayden55 Member

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    Reply to above: If he would've bought the specific LKA display assembly he could've finished out the kit and had it display correctly. You can buy a whole used functioning module on ebay right now for our cars for $100 bucks. I suspect if I actually tried to get the oem system to function It would be about $1450 for all used parts plus whatever the length of wire cost. thats with everything but the lka camera we wont use (but only cost $112 on ebay rn if you wanted it lol)


    It wouldn't take but maybe a weekend or a week once I inferred the lengths needed to make my additive wiring harness and had the components ready to go. The OEM dash looks complex but can be completely disassembled in less than an hour to basically expose everything Denso gifted us with under there. Also, we aren't reinventing the wheel here this stuff is laid out on OEM paper and we aren't breaking apart the stock harness we are just going to the pins that are exactly noted in the wiring diagram for the Prius and making these connections. I never really planned to use the OEM system in its entirety but make a system that could use OEM logic and sensors to steer left to right smoothly and brake coast and accelerate smoothly to a certain accuracy. Once you can figure out the can bus communication and can get them to work with a program then you plug in your aftermarket controller (aka comma neo) The comma ai system takes over as the brain after I get these systems functional. Even on cars they support they unplug some of the OEM sensors to plug in their recognition camera (after you flick on the cruise control circuit it becomes the autopilot brain to keep you at speed in the lane and not crash into stuff in front of you). Also the system would only be able to steer brake and accel with a small amount of force. If you're paying attention like you should be there no reason why you wouldn't be able to hold the wheel still and flick off the cruise control which turns off auto-pilot. Note the OEM system is just electrically assisted. There is still a physical assembly going into the steering rack and you could still steer this car if the power assisted steering system went out. So don't confuse this with a strictly steering by wire system with no physical connection to the steering rack.

    But with that said I'm glad I studied the OEM system's functions and electrical connections. I've learned a lot and learned how severely handicapped it is and it may not be ideal for what I'm trying to do here. I'm trying to cost-effectively come up with a GOOD Diy kit that can steer your car to a certain degree, force-wise it doesn't input much-steering torque into the wheel so it isn't going to jerk you off the road, it would be more of a slow drift if there was a malfunction and you would be expected to be paying attention and take over in this event of failure. I'm going to probably start assembling the kit here over the next bit, and start testing steering control and control of the OEM cruise control circuit. My main goal is that I do a lot of highway driving on well-marked highways and it would be nice to relax a little on these journies so if I get it to function and control these circuits I may just leave it as that since I don't plan to use it in busy traffic situations. (brother lives 6 hours away, parents live 3 hours away, I take lots of trips to Memphis which is a solid hour+ of empty interstate driving until you make it to city limits, etc...). My goal is to finish out the kit and make it where other prius owners can buy or assembly my kir and buy the driving agent from comma ai and having a functioning autopilot system that is cost effective and advanced like the new 16+ cars available with it (and the oem pcss system is neither especially once the stock pile of used oem parts runs out and you have to sell a kidney to get a new driving support module to assemble a kit D: )

    I'm no electrical engineer but I have taken some of the classes they take ;) (BSME is my fav form of cruel and unusual punishment lol)
     
    #16 hayden55, Dec 20, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
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  17. Willl

    Willl New Member

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    Did you complete the system using comm.ai openpilot?? I am very much wanting to do the same thing as well
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    why do these projects almost never work out?
     
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