sudden coolant consumption, options to prevent HG failure?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by jack black, Nov 23, 2020.

  1. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    The real smoking gun in my mind are the bad rings (no argument on that reality) leading to excessive blow-by which ends up clogging everything on our 2010-2014 cars. Some discount a little initial oil use but we know blow-by means fuel in the oil. This can reduce apparent volume loss until it is larger at high miles, typically over 150k. Sure the egr clogging and pcv slugging contributes but they may be consequences of bad rings rather than a root cause of head gasket failures.

    I also believe thermal cycling can be a factor, especially on vehicles that idle excessively. As stated earlier, I see 195f coolant temps cool to 150f when the system is in Ready with the engine off (maybe 10 or more minutes). This is followed by a short charging cycle that quickly returns the temp to 195f. We are in a hot Texas environment which is not great for man, beast, batteries or likely engines.

    But when I was Jack's age and suffering low cash flow, sometimes you did what you had to do. Sometimes you limp by until resources allow a better solution. When I was that age I was thrilled to cruise down a Canadian no speed limit autoban at 100 mph from Michigan to Montreal. The Ford V8 was coughing a bit after that teenage excess but it bravely made it all the way back to Texas. Only later did I realize a piston had a hole blown through it. I had to save a bit to have the engine rebuilt by the guys at the Sears Auto department. Yes, Sears was the Amazon of the day and did everything. In Jack's case, a temporary repair may be necessary. Nevertheless, I would start saving for the long term repair or replacement.
     
    #21 rjparker, Nov 24, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
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  2. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    Let the poop show begin...

    I said similar to that back while ago on same topic different thread that my ICE temp will drop 20 degrees in 5 minutes w/P&G and everyone said something was wrong with my engine and that should never happened, that was the poop.
     
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sunday driver DIY’r

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    Second gen has a much simpler EGR, and owners are running them to 200~300K without head gasket failure. Third Gen not so much. Fourth gen, they revised the EGR in various ways, all of which look to addressing the third gen shortcomings. And it looks like it's working; I don't recall one 4th Gen head gasket failure reported here?,
     
  4. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    Last time I checked, this is the gen 3 forum :D
     
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  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sunday driver DIY’r

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    My reason for mentioning 4th gen: if 4th gen is is redesigned and not having problems, this implies they fixed shortcomings present in 3rd gen. They've revised the valve I'm sure, likely changing it's performance programing, significantly increased the cross-sectional area of the EGR components, and relocated the inlet to the downstream side of catalytic converter.

    With 4th gen they've also made the EGR more (if that's possible...) onerous to access, requiring partial disconnection and shifting of the inverter, according to @Raytheeagle.
     
    #25 Mendel Leisk, Nov 25, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
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  6. jack black

    jack black Active Member

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    nope, it was #2 here: 2011 Prius Head Gasket Failure | PriusChat
     
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sunday driver DIY’r

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  8. jack black

    jack black Active Member

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    right! so it fails the same way as the corolla engine which has no EGR cooler. meaning your blaming the EGR cooler for HG failures (that was clean in The Critic's and mine cases) is insane.

    corolla HG failure info here: 2011 Prius Head Gasket Failure | Page 5 | PriusChat
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sunday driver DIY’r

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    I never claimed to be sane... :cool:
     
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  10. jzchen

    jzchen Senior Member

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    Scary reading. I still have one bottle of K-Seal sitting, was going to pour a third into the Panamera, (28 L volume in that car), but didn't. Maybe it's time to preemptively pour it in the coolant. I'm definitely not having a good time with the suspension at the moment...

    moto g(7) power ?
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sunday driver DIY’r

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    Don't do it lol. Anyway, if you do, a flush with 50/50 vinegar/water is recommended by one sealing product vendor (I forget which one, maybe it was @cnc97 that mentioned??), to dissolve the gunk. Test on a chunk if you can drain a bit.
     
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  12. cnc97

    cnc97 Senior Member

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    I’m not sure what Kseal turns into, but I can testify that Blue Devil Pour-N-Go turns into a pink/blue rock. Now I say “Just say no” to stop leak.
     
    #32 cnc97, Nov 25, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
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  13. jzchen

    jzchen Senior Member

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    Went to San Diego with the Porsche and came back with low oil. (Had to change the battery that morning). Since the sump takes 9.5 qts got two Blue Devil Pour and Go. Not good caused leaking oil filler cap. Yes, not all leak stoppers are the same. Didn't even bother about their warranty...



    moto g(7) power ?
     
  14. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    Knock, knock.
    Who's there?
    It's me cylinder #1
     
    #34 rjparker, Nov 25, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
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  15. jzchen

    jzchen Senior Member

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    I must say, neither GM tabs nor K-Seal look pleasant to the eye when mixed with coolant as warned. I was advised by my Cadillac parts guy to use the entire package but some say not. The K-Seal is a liquid but need to shake very well.

    Still think it's worth a shot, at least when you notice coolant levels dropping. Maybe I won't proactively. If it were my or my family's car and I suspect HG coolant leak into the cylinder or other hard part leak into air, I would 100% try it first. Instructions say it will not work for coolant to oil or coolant to transmission fluid leaks, just coolant leak to air, and in hard part leaks vs hoses.

    moto g(7) power ?
     
  16. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Pics to prove it:cool::
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    Hopefully the egr redesign leads to better results;).

    But if I hold my breath, I'll turn the color of our Prime:whistle:.

    Trust but verify (y).
     
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  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sunday driver DIY’r

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    Holy moly!
     
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  18. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    These circuit cleanses might not be able to be accomplished at a meet up :cool:.

    But when the time comes, I'll give it the old grade school try(y).
     
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  19. jack black

    jack black Active Member

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    to update the thread: I put the loading dose of Bar's Leaks tabs (all 6) in the reservoir, simply because i had them in my garage. no knocking since, but can't gauge any coolant loss yet, as i had to add more coolant to keep all those tabs in suspension. it's overfilled now and i'll keep a close eye on it (like daily).

    i don't see any white smoke and there is no coolant in oil that i can see. i'm thinking i caught it early. fingers crossed.
     
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  20. jack black

    jack black Active Member

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    update 2: it has been over a month and 700 miles of city commuting. while the first week consumption i estimated at 200cc, it slowed down since, and it's negligible now. the level went down in the next 3-4 weeks from full to the low line. my plan was to step up from this to sodium silicate fix when coolant tank is empty, but it's on hold now. i'll do UOA first to see if there are indeed traces of coolant in oil. of course YMMV.

    please, the resident forum trolls, know-it-all, smart Aleck types, and other obnoxious jerks (you know whom you're) need not to reply.

    as for everyone else: Happy Holidays and Happy New Year.
     
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