Toyota read this - what's my prime thought?

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by inferno, Mar 28, 2016.

?
  1. Not enough ev...

    44.7%
  2. Where's wireless charging?

    2.6%
  3. It's only a 4 seater...

    44.7%
  4. I'm buying it!

    18.4%
  5. It's too odd looking?

    3.9%
  6. What's Prime? Where's the pip?

    1.3%
  7. The trunk is too small now.

    18.4%
  8. I'm not buying regardless.

    2.6%
  9. Weak plugin competition...

    6.6%
  10. No spare tire?

    10.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    The raise of the floor is roughly 3 inches.

    Where did the 6.7 value come from? I wouldn't count the underneath, since most people leave the floor on and it doesn't affect the seat-down use.
     
  2. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    If they did visit PC, they would find threads like this one, people threatening to sue for mouse problems!:) Toyota claims not aware of mouse problem | Page 7 | PriusChat
     
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  3. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    Now that's just silly. This thread is about real issues :p. Interesting at this point ev range tops the lost by 1 over seating. Do people think Toyota missed the phv boat completely? Like they joined the 22 miles ev range too late?

    Could be true since Hyundai first phv will out distance prime.

    But remember. Figure are not official yet
     
  4. JohnF

    JohnF Active Member

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    The listing is missing some important choices. One is "can't charge it". I own a condo with carports that lack electric power (except for lighting at night). Parking in the driveway and running a power cord out there isn't a good option.

    Another is "don't believe in PHEV's". It seems (to me) that it's an inefficient and compromise solution. In the extreme case (Volt), you're lugging along a gas engine and tank filled with gas (heavy!) for the first 40 miles or so and thereafter lugging along a depleted battery. The added weight costs energy efficiency, and the extra stuff costs space efficiency (e.g., lost seat in Volt and Prime), given how tightly packaged modern cars are.

    Despite being unable to charge one (yet?), I'm a bigger fan of EV's, especially as improved batteries add range. Even with the existing offerings, I looked longingly at the Leaf when I was still working. My commute was 35 miles each way, zero possibility of charging at work, so its 100 mile range would have suited my needs perfectly. The Prius would have been my second car for longer trips. On longer trips I need to carry stuff (boats) and go further than the Tesla S's range (e.g., to Boston and return is 276 mi).

    Seems to me that more battery isn't necessarily better in the existing Prius setup. It's a complex compromise between weight, space, cost, and mpg benefit. As Bob Wilson and others point out, the present regular-Prius' battery serves a different function from an EV's battery: it's a "buffer" to temporarily store energy to increase efficiency.

    It also seems to me that just having an EV doesn't mean in itself that one is using energy efficiently. One can easily waste energy in an EV by driving it like a lunatic. Even if the energy comes from a "pure" source like directly from solar panels, that wasted energy could have been fed into the grid instead.
     
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  5. adric22

    adric22 Ev and Hybrid Enthusiast

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    I'm exactly the opposite. I think standard hybrids that don't plug in make no sense. I mean, you already have everything you need in a regular hybrid. All that needs to be added is a charge port, charging mechanism, and hopefully a little bit larger battery. The cost difference is minimal compared to a regular hybrid and yet the benefit of adding those things is tremendous. When I look at a regular hybrid that can't plug in I'm always thinking "what a waste of a good drivetrain, it can't live up to its full potential." I seriously think all hybrids should be able to plug in and have at least 15 miles of EV range, with premium versions offering even more range.
     
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  6. Potorap

    Potorap Active Member

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    So let me start by saying I like the Prius Prime from what I have seen so far. Taking into account everyone's needs are different. This 2nd gen was a total redesign (not a gen 4 with a plug) I don't understand why Toyota went through all the R &D to only give us 22 miles of EV. We all know that those miles are in a perfect world. In a lab with no incline and no wind. (Lol) Toyota should have doubled that range and built the car without any takeaways (4 seater). Isn't this the whole idea of redesign? It seams to me that they want to milk the customers for all they have a little at a time, never giving us what we want even after all the surveys we have taken. So the question I am asked every time I mention I have a plug in is (wait for it) How many miles can I drive in EV? When I answer 11-15 I get the rolling of the eyes and THATS IT. With so many EV's out now they should have designed a car with more EV. I love Toyota but I just don't get it.
     
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  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    turns out it is a gen 4 with a plug.:(
     
  8. Potorap

    Potorap Active Member

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  9. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    I think I get their strategy. A Plugin Prius that's just the 4th gen with a battery will only yield so much in profits. By changing everything they can bump up the price not just by saying "Hey, we added more LiIon batteries for just $2000-$3000 extra". Now we're probably looking at $35k+...
     
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  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    for an 11" screen?
     
  11. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    What did they say? 60% of the whole car is 2016 Prius, 40% is Prime only? Gives them a way to market it to be $35k+ and make more profit though it'll sell less. Ok...so the question is, will they pull that BS and try to make profit on a low-volume vehicle (did they with the original Prius? I don't remember...)

    They are a bit out of their league this time. Don't try to be an extended EV, or be the child of Tesla and GM...be yourself! PiP!
     
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  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    price will be everything.
     
  13. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Actually, it's COST that's everything.

    How much Toyota must spend to produce the vehicle is what determines its future. Because once those tax-credits expire, only the well planned out designs will be able to maintain high-volume profitable sales.
     
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  14. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I am with you on 15 miles, but USA policy is Congress gives big bonus to those who put very big Li batts in cars
     
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  15. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    I believe I read somewhere that the Gen 4 Plugin is offered in Japan, but that'll only give you a mile.
     
  16. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    Are you sure about that? Compare Side-by-Side



     
    #36 Sergiospl, Mar 29, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2016
  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Starting out with a full charge, even on the small hybrid battery, will net some improvement in gas consumption. Include an engine block and cat heater, and the car can skip the loss of the warm up stage. And this wouldn't require a dedicated outlet for the car.

    The 60% that are gen 4 are all the important bits. The one way clutch in the HSD, is probably biggest difference there. The rest of it is just window dressing.

    The:rolleyes: at the PiP range, I blame on Toyota. Most of the DIY and kits for plug in conversions never changed the base Prius EV limits. Yeah, the car would go farther on EV, if you kept it under 25mph or 35mph, depending on gen, and accelerated at a brisk walk. So the cars operated in hybrid mode out the gate for most. The large batteries supplemented with grid charge greatly reduced the amount of time the ICE had to make an input. Resulting in less gas used overall.

    Toyota did a poor job of explaining that the Prius Plug In was meant to use even less gas than the Prius with the help of electricity from the grid, not to provide an EV driving experience. I only got from the fan boys here. But perhaps people may have been less willing to pay what Toyota asked if they did a better job.
     
  18. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

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    I would have still liked the idea of "hotswappable" batteries. Give Gen 4 trunk space, and have an option to easily bring in a 25 lb LiIon pack so much at a time. Then the PiP could be rated as the first going from 15 miles ev to being able to handle 40 miles ev with hotswappable battery connectors (that can all charge separately no less!)
     
  19. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    When people say why they like EV's, we usually get a long list of personal energy policy beliefs.

    If we can ever get beyond the politics, the 100% EV drive experience is superior and powerful. So the old PiP1 did not give bona fide EV mode up to highways speeds (not that I personally care too much about that).

    So the new PiP2 gives a true EV mode up to highway speeds.
     
  20. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That was intentional. They wanted to study market response as a whole, rather than pushing any particular approach.

    No matter how many times it was pointed out that Toyota wanted to remain flexible, some people just plain didn't want to accept it. In fact, their response was usually to call people pointing that out defenders trying to spin the situation.

    That was annoying, but now we have confirmation of it being the case... which has rendered most of the naysayers silent.

    This is why gen-1 rollout expansion was postponed, then production ended entirely. Looking back, it should be fairly obvious the market was quite fickle and really not certain what it actually wanted. Remaining flexible offered opportunity.
     
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