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Valve lifter ticking

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by JohnStef, Sep 15, 2018.

  1. JohnStef

    JohnStef Member

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    Recently purchased a 2008 Prius the engine runs pretty smooth but has a noticeable ticking sound under light to heavy load. But it goes away under a no load condition.

    The sound is not terrible, I Could run 40W oil but I hesitate to go that route, and I don't know if it will help.

    I used a .005, .010, .015 feeler gage, you can see the results, all but one gap is less than .010.

    Anyone have a less painful method for replacing the buckets?



    #1JohnStef, Aug 16, 2018
     

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  2. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    That looks very good the previous owner too good care of it.

    Ok here's what I know:

    1---The G2 has solid lifters. So its a pretty noisy top end.

    2---Buckets must be replaced if out of spec. Big job cams have to come out. I think in the 12 years on this site maybe one person did it.

    3--If your hearing valve noise under load it may be because your demanding power and acceleration the car does not posses and your stressing the engine out. The car may not posses it because the hybrid battery supplies the bulk of the power and torque for this car and if its the original hybrid battery it is old and may need to be replaced soon. The battery does not have the power it used too. First sign of old age. With no big power contribution from the battery under high demand the engine has to do all the work and may be over revving.
    Start thinking about what your going to do when that battery fails. Start keeping an eye on that battery's charge behavior and not worry so much about a valve ticking noise. It wont hurt you. Its not from lack of maintenance engine looks excellent.

    4---You may try a different brand of oil to minimize the ticking. Over 11 years of ownership the only brand of oil I have found that really helps the engine valve noise is Red Line 10-30. Its actually 40 weight oil at operating temp. It has a really good zddp package in it too. Really makes the engine run much smoother. Very high end oil 100% synthetic. Not cheap.
    I actually use Red Line D6 for trans fluid too. 100% synthetic also.
    Have for 11 years so far and counting....

    Good Luck.
     
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  3. JohnStef

    JohnStef Member

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    Ed this looks like a home run, all 4 of your points sound right on the money
    1. Agree
    2. Agree, Changing the shims, not a trifling matter
    3. This car has a exhausted battery, I need a good hybrid system operating to better evaluate the engine noise.
    4. Your lubricant suggestion to reduce ticking and improve engine wear is much appreciated. I will search for this product.

    So the engine is going back together and I will move onto the battery replacement.
    Many Thanks
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    how many miles on her?
     
  5. JohnStef

    JohnStef Member

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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    nice, thanks!(y)
     
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    There's a whole wack of links in this, but it's the main document, will get you started. Plus the valve cover torque spec.

    With our Honda's over the years I would occasionally do a valve adjustment: screw and locknut adjustment is absurdly easier.
     

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  8. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    Just a thought. Most all modern engine controls use a "anti-knock sensor" that sends a signal to the engine ECU to moderate the "dieseling" effect that occurs with low octane gasoline.

    You try a tank of higher octane gas to see if anything happens. If the ticking goes away, you might replace the anti-knock sensor.
     
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  9. JohnStef

    JohnStef Member

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    Question for an engine tech: would the gap values stated in the 1st post be large enough to cause the tick noise, keep in mind that there are likely some gaps that are .012. (My feeler gage set skipped from .005, .010, .015, .020)
    Thank you for the comments above.
     
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    That's too rough a set of feeler gauges. The typical automotive feeler gauge set goes in increments of .001". They're not expensive, I would just get another.

    IMG_9376.JPG
    IMG_9377.JPG
     
  11. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    The spec is as follows:
    Valve clearance (Cold):
    Intake 0.17 to 0.23 mm (0.007 to 0.009 in.)
    Exhaust 0.27 to 0.33 mm (0.011 to 0.013 in.)
     
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  12. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I know feeler gauges are how it's always been done, and maybe it's just me, but I have always felt that checking valve clearance that way turns out to be less clear-cut than you'd think. The valves are on springs, after all, and a feeler that pushes one down just the tiniest fraction of a mm will still feel like it slips in fairly easily, without heavy drag. So you have to sort of decide for yourself what the "right amount" of drag ought to feel like, and what you decide about that influences what numbers you get. You have a significant mechanical advantage, pushing into a narrow gap a piece of solid metal just a hair wider than the gap.

    The last time I went to measure 1NZ valve clearances, I tried a different method of setting a dial indicator stem just touching the top of the lifter, then lifting the lifter up with a magnet-on-a-stick. That felt like a much more repeatable, reproducible method.

    But then, I don't know whether the specs in the manual already include a small allowance for slightly larger readings made with feelers.

    -Chap
     
  13. JohnStef

    JohnStef Member

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    Patrick it sounds like my motor is mostly in-spec. I really appreciate the correct info.
    Somehow I got off track and thought that the spec was .005,
     
  14. JohnStef

    JohnStef Member

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    while I was in there the chain shows about 5/16" play up and down, the front of the motor is on the left 20180917_194355.jpg 20180917_194345.jpg
     
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  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Those specs are pretty much industry standard. I remember first time I did a valve clearance check, on an 83 Accord I think. I got finished, started it up for a listen, and it was sort of struggling to idle. Then I realized: I'd set the intake to exhaust spec, and vice versa, lol. It drove home for me: those clearances are pretty critical.
     
  16. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    Your engine is pretty much very clean.
    You may ha e being using specified engine oil, and adhering to scheduled oil changes.
    Some clients abuse their Prius like they do to some conventional cars.
    Picture below was for a Suzuki Alto 1.3L that seizes recently.
    Seized just because of lack of adhering to oil changes and using wrong viscosity oils.
     

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  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    ^Ugh. Looks like something in an Egyptian sarcophagus...

    (I can't believe I got through that last word without spell-correct intervention.
     
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  18. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    You get to see stuffs like that a lot over here(Nigeria) in some vehicles one works on regularly.
     
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  19. JohnStef

    JohnStef Member

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    Thank you ladies and gentlemen for the comments. The ticking could be from a variety of sources, the knock sensor Georgina pointed could be it, I have not gotten that far, however ... I saved the oil change debris, it is not good, there is metal. I had a Prius tech over to my house to look it over to do a re-furbed battery swap. He listened carefully from above and from underneath and said the ticking is pretty apparent below and above, then looking at the metal in the pan, he said bad words. Bearing fail.
    But, changing the bearings is not a bad job, and the part cost for a set of 4 is less than $50.
     

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  20. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    Well, if you got the time, replacing the bearings isn't a problem.

    The main problem is, how are you sure the crankshaft journals, and the crankshaft itself hasn't scoured from the knocking noise?

    Two options to the fix:
    1. You can do the bearing replacements, with the engine still in the hood. Lots of inconveniences though.
    2. You could remove the engine completely from the hood, and dismantled it, then get it replaced.

    I'd prefer the later option, if you're going to own this car for long, and you want a durable job done.
    As you remove the crankshaft from the engine, have a machinist inspect the crankshaft journals, and crankshaft itself, for any signs of scouring. If scouring available, replace the crankshaft, or you dress the crankshaft before installing a new crankshaft bearings.

    Installing any of the bearings with a new one, without gauging the crankshaft, and other valve train components, would only be a short term fix.

    Picture below is just an example of what I mean, by the crankshaft journal seating blabla. Where the connecting rods attaches to, and all that.

    In this picture, you can see the top crankshaft connecting rod portion on number 1, is scoured from the engine failure(seizure), as compared to #1$3 portions.

    PS: You may just get a used low mileage engine, and replace, if the costs of just replacing the bearings outweighs the fix(just bearings replacement).


    Dxta
     

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    #20 Dxta, Sep 20, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
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