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Warning lights (detailed description of problems, lengthy)

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Cory Potrafka, Feb 27, 2016.

  1. Cory Potrafka

    Cory Potrafka Junior Member

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    Desperately need help! I work weekends 4 hours away from home and live WAY out in the sticks, my Prius is my life line! I am not a mechanic but am extremely competent at fixing pretty much anything after exhaustive research. I have always fixed my own cars and am not afraid to tackle any job excepting those that have absolutely NO work around to using tools that are out of my price range. My weak point is often with diagnosing a problem, once I know whats wrong, I will fix it. It will take me ten times as long as a professional but the job will be done right when I'm done. I am patient, diligent, thorough and spend even more time researching than I do repairing. Below is as comprehensive of an explanation as I can give but feel free to ask for any additional information. I apologize for the length but I have noticed that questions like "my red triangle light is on. Whats wrong with my car and how do I fix it" are not able to be answered (obviously).

    When it occurred: 25 minute trip through a lot of curves and up and down hills during an episode of DWPO (driving while pissed off). I wasn't squealing tires around corners or anything but definitely taking uphill climbs and corners much more aggressively than usual (I live in the mountainous country of south western VA and usually I take the uphills well below speed limit so as to not dog out my car). Definitely gave my motors, brakes, and suspension system a workout that it was not used to.

    History: 2005 Prius gen II. I bought the car used 6 months ago (high mileage, 175,000 at purchase, nearing 200,000 now). It was obviously very well maintained, and going by the seller's word, it was dealership maintained. With a car this complex, I have no idea if the following issues relate to my current problem. 1) I have a wheel bearing that needs to be replaced (front driver side I believe, strong whine while steering right). 2) There is a noise that I assume is a normal operation. I would guess it is a pump of sorts but seems to pump in squirts as opposed to a steady pump. I have no idea what it is or how it is supposed to work but I would liken the action's noise to a rubber bulb type hand pump (think turkey baster). I have assumed this was a normal operation and only occurs here and there but occasionally this noise will continue nonstop for long periods, both while at idle and while driving. 3) I have kept up with oil changes but a current oil change is over due by about 500 miles. Only since my last oil change have I had to add additional oil before the next change. I have had to add almost two quarts over the course of roughly three months, which is odd because there is zero oil under the car when parked, zero oil visible on engine or anywhere, and it puts off no exhaust smoke. 5) There is often an electronical noise when I press the brake. I have assumed this was normal operation. I researched this noise when I first got the car and if memory serves me correct I believe I determined it was something to do with charging a brake booster (maybe?). I could be off on the appropriate terms here.

    Indicators: No warning lights came on for the whole aggressive drive but when I got near my destination (local watering hole) I stopped for cigs. After restarting my car the following warning lights came on immediately. On dash: Red Triangle with exclamation point, amber check engine light, amber exclamation point within a circle within parentheses (brake system?). On display screen: when car first starts screen says "Problem" across the top then turns to a red car symbol with an exclamation point in the upper left hand corner of screen. All these warning lights have remained on full time since occurrence.

    Resulting symptoms: 1) Idling at stop lights the gas engine will cut on and off very frequently (run for a few seconds, cut off for a few seconds and repeat indefinitely). This may have only occurred right after the lights came on. I have not idled it for more than a couple seconds since (stop lights aren't really a thing around here) 2) For the first time ever I heard the hybrid battery cooling fan. It appears to run constantly at what I would guess is full speed as soon as I turn the car on, even after sitting overnight at just above freezing temps. 3) The noise I always hear when I start and stop the car (which I have been led to believe is the coolant pump pumping fluid in and out of a heat retaining reservoir) was audible the entire drive home. could be that, could be something that sounds just like it. 4) the same noise just described now sounds a lot rougher, like with a little knocking noise added in. Although this pump noise is constant while driving, I believe this rough knocking sounding noise only occurs when you first start it (or maybe it is drowned out by road noise). 5) When these lights lit, hybrid battery level was in the red (one bar) but quickly rose to full green within less than a mile (very abnormal). The drive home (after car sat for a few hours) the hybrid battery seemed to charge and discharge at a somewhat similar rate as before but went to full green quicker and more often than before. I get the full green more often than many due to long descents but this was abnormal.

    Trouble shooting and results: Checked oil level, good. Checked coolant reservoirs, inverter coolant just barely above the "low" line. Engine coolant level fine. Did the inverter pump check, felt only the slightest vibration in the black hose coming off reservoir and saw zero fluid movement when looking into the tank. Checked 12v battery levels using diagnostic screen, seemed to fluctuate between just fine and a little low, at times dipping momentarily as low as 10 volts with heat and other accessories on. This battery has been drained and jump started one time about three months ago. Have not checked any fuses yet. I had to make the 25 minute return drive home last night but have not driven the car since.

    So it seems to be, at the very least, that my inverter pump has finished its lifespan unless there are other things that could contribute to its action (or lack there of). I have no OBD2 scanner and so cannot retrieve codes unless there is a way to do it under the diagnostic menu but I saw no way to do this. I live at least an hour and a half from any Toyota dealership and am a half hour or more away from basically anything except a gas station/general store (not a service station). Although it drives pretty much as before (with some added noises) I am worried about driving my car that far or at all really.

    My questions are first off of course, what the hell? And second, am I correct that I should refrain from any further driving with the inverter pump not working, including to a mechanic with the appropriate code reader? I cannot afford to make my repairs more costly than what they will already be. Do I feel like kicking my own arse for driving like an idiot? You better believe it, so scold away if you must.
     
  2. Cory Potrafka

    Cory Potrafka Junior Member

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    Thanks for the advice. I nearly bought a MVCI last night but while I saw many positive remarks, I saw many very negative remarks as well. I was looking at the chinese devises that were apparently some rip off of another companies device. Would you advise buying one of these? Is updated software an issue with them, I read they can not be updated? It is not as cheap as the other things you mentioned but well within my means, would you advise the MVCI as the best option of the ones you stated? Also, should I completely avoid driving if my inverter cooling pump is dead? I will check out the reading material you provided, thanks again.
     
  3. Cory Potrafka

    Cory Potrafka Junior Member

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    Sorry, I somehow overlooked your previous statement about driving the car. Just read and watched video. Upon inspection in daylight and with a flashlight shining down into the tank I actually do see some fluid movement. I wouldn't call it turbulence, at first I thought it was just engine vibration moving the fluid a bit but with the gas motor off it still showed very slight movement at the liquids surface. I feel ALMOST no perceptible vibration in the hose that comes off the tank but reaching down to the actual pump I can feel it vibrating. Unless the pump is just pumping much weaker than it should, it looks as though I am back to square one, with no idea what the problem is, perhaps the hybrid battery failure? :(
    Just ordered a MVCI coming from NY, I hope it arrives sooner than its "no later than" date! Thanks for your help, I'll probably be back.

    Update: Just took a 10 minute test drive, here is what I observed. The knocky noise of the coolant pump at start up is gone and it does not seem to run constant as it did last night. But here is what I hope will be a tell tale sign (of what i don't know). The hybrid battery meter on screen was full green bars the entire time (nothing even close to this has ever happened before). It also shows that the already completely full battery was still being charged most of the drive and would only indicate that power was being used FROM the battery on very few occasions and even then for only fractions of a second. the gas motor never turned off. I went down hills in neutral to limit charging. fan on battery still running at full speed full time. When I got back to my street I stopped and drove as tho I were in a busy parking lot, this usually makes the car run on battery alone but not so today, still gas motor. So I gather that something is causing it to charge the battery even tho it is at capacity and something is not really allowing the battery to power the electric motor. Other than this, if the warning lights weren't on and I was not familiar with the Prius I would have no idea the car had an issue.
     
    #3 Cory Potrafka, Feb 27, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2016
  4. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    Painful. This was the only info you needed to convey.

    HV Battery is bad. Hearing the HV Batt fan for the first time is a classic sign, in addition to the obvious Master Warning Light (Red Exclamation Point inside triangle), "probelm" appearing on MFD.

    Very few original HV Batts seem to last past 150K miles. Even fewer get close or over 200K miles.

    Driving while pissed off/aggressively, only accelerates wear. The HV Batt would have died soon enough, even if you drove like like a snail.

    Trust but verify. I would have looked on Toyota.com and entered the VIN to corroborate the service history. Your local Toyota dealership could have corroborated any dealers service as well; they may have even given you this info over the phone.

    Second Generation Prius covers model years 2004-2009. Your 2005 is infered as a Gen2.

    It is in yoir best interest to get mini VCI.

    ALL mini VCIs are knock offs of the propietary Mongoos cables, and all are made in China. Mongoose Pro are the cables supplied to and used by Toyota dealerships.

    Buying from a seller on Amazon and the product being shipped by Amazon is a good idea. This will make returns/exchanges easy.

    Techstream software version 8.0 is sufficient to qork on Gen2 Prius. A later version would be good for later model year Toyotas.
     
    Cory Potrafka likes this.
  5. S Keith

    S Keith Senior Member

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    With the information in the update, I concur with exstudent.
     
  6. Cory Potrafka

    Cory Potrafka Junior Member

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    II
    Thanks for all the help guys. Mini VCI is ordered. New update:
    Disconnected battery to reset. found that the 12v battery was sitting in a pool of water and negative terminal was severely corroded. Cleaned up terminal, left disconnected for about an hour and a half, drained water, put it all back together and all looked well. Drove to the gas station everything seemed normal, was using electric and gas motor, seemed to be charging and discharging when appropriate. Only concern was that the battery meter was moving from full charge to one bar and back at a pretty rapid rate compared to before. thought maybe the ECUs just needed some time to recalibrate or whatever. Unfortunately when I started it back up to leave the station, all lights were back on. It is however not acting quite as stupid. I no longer hear the battery fan and it seems to be switching between electric and gas as normal. As I said before, the 12v battery was not really as strong as it should, almost but not quite. Should I try a new 12v while I wait for my code reader to arrive?
     
  7. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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  8. Cory Potrafka

    Cory Potrafka Junior Member

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    Got my Mini VCI today here are the codes and screen shots.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    For now ignore all the C and B codes.
    Focus on P codes.
    P3015 battery block 5 becomes weak.
    Under the details of P0A80, block is at 15.28v. The rest are above16v.
     
  10. jadziasman

    jadziasman Prius owner emeritus

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    I doubt that HV batteries have been failing at a high rate in early Gen 2s with over 150K miles. If so, there would have been gobs of people wailing about this on websites like CarComplaints.com. HV battery failure is relatively low on the list of items that have needed repair/replacement for early Gen 2s.

    Stalin once said that one death is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic. HV battery failure has not become a statistic - yet.
     
  11. S Keith

    S Keith Senior Member

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    What's your point? He clearly has a failed battery.
     
  12. jadziasman

    jadziasman Prius owner emeritus

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    I did not want to cite exstudent's post directly but since you apparently did not notice what he wrote, I suppose I'm left with no other option now.
     
  13. jadziasman

    jadziasman Prius owner emeritus

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    S Keith,

    People often sell or trade in their vehicles when they are worn out or when something is seriously wrong with them. Consequently, there will be many Gen 2s for sale that need HV batteries - hundreds of them no doubt. And the older a Prius is, the more likely it is that something or other is wrong with it if it is up for sale.

    Yet, there are hundreds of thousands of Gen 2s (early and late model) still on the road that their current owners are happy with and have no plans of unloading any time soon.

    My contention is that claiming that 150K miles is end of life for a Prius HV battery is misleading and discourages non-owners from taking on a risk with a newer model with high mileage. My Gen 2 was only 5.5 years old and it had 134K miles on it.when I bought it in 2010. I took the risk and "lucked" out apparently. Would I take a chance again on buying a 2011 Gen 3 with 134K miles? I probably would if the price was right.
     
  14. Cory Potrafka

    Cory Potrafka Junior Member

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    Before buying a Prius I did a lot of research, specifically on the hv battery. I concluded that most get mileage way beyond their warranty. "Most" wasn't good enough for me so I further researched possible options in the case of HV battery failure. Upon learning that there were methods to rebuild and refurbish the battery I decided to go with a well maintained but high mileage Prius that was just within my price range (I paid $4750 for a 2005 w/ 175,000 miles, bought in August of 2015). Not sure what my point is but I understand that people could use these forums to determine that Priuses are doomed to fail or they could realize that most people come here only when there is a problem so of course you are going to see many more post that describe a problem than those dropping by to express their continued satisfaction. I think most people are here to fix their problem and not to determine the likelihood of future problems.
     
  15. jadziasman

    jadziasman Prius owner emeritus

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    Good point Cory, but I visited Priuschat before I bought my Gen2 and what I read then influenced my decision to buy it. At the time I bought my Gen 2 HV battery failure posts on Priuschat were rare. Now not so much. If Priuschat were meant only for hard core enthusiasts who want repair tips it wouldn't be as useful or popular as it has become.
     
  16. Cory Potrafka

    Cory Potrafka Junior Member

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    And I am eternally grateful for the enthusiasts who peruse post with the sole intent of helping others. But how many threads have you seen where the original poster just stopped by to say his car was all good, no problems to report at this moment?
     
  17. jadziasman

    jadziasman Prius owner emeritus

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    I think I already answered that in my last post. When I bought my Gen 2 there WEREN'T issues with HV battery failure which is something I was concerned about when I was weighing the risks of buying mine. That was helpful.

    What isn't helpful are blanket statements that are misleading.

    It was not my intention to hijack this thread so I'll bow out now.
     
    #17 jadziasman, Mar 6, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2016