P3125, no P3130, no inverter coolant flow...

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by landspeed, Dec 12, 2019.

  1. landspeed

    landspeed Active Member

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    I just got myself a 2003 Prius very cheap; it had a fault and I was informed that at least two of the battery modules were weak; I figured I could rebuild the battery and learn about the NWH11 as well.

    I did a test drive a few days ago and the battery went from high to low on the in-car display - thereby showing classic symptoms of a failing battery. No error codes came up.

    I bought the car and brought it back home today. I didn’t have the PIDs for the first gen, but the battery seemed to ‘charge’ and ‘discharge’ very easily. I realised I could still read error codes despite not having PIDs, and got a P3125, which wouldn’t go away when clearing codes. I had driven 140km, and the car would work for a while, but the sometimes slow down, but then the power would return, with high engine revs and the HV battery disconnected - also symptoms of a bad HV battery.

    I downloaded the torquepro PIDs, and they display readings of many things, although the battery voltages are not working yet. However, after all the driving, only a P3125 code was set. Once I got the PIDs installed, the inverter temperatures were 170 Fahrenheit, about 2 hours after driving it. Removing the coolant reservoir cover with ignition on shows absolutely no movement.

    I was wondering; is it possible to get a P3125 due to overheating inverter, due to a failed coolant pump, but the failed pump doesn’t trigger a P3130? Hopefully the inverter isn’t fried.... also, does the NWH11 have the ‘battery module X becomes weak’ error codes? If so, it is interesting that I haven’t got one - I can’t get the voltage PIDs to work, but it would be nice if the battery was Ok!
     
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  2. landspeed

    landspeed Active Member

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    I did a bit more testing; I can't get EngineLink (iOS) to show the actual individual battery module voltages; I think I will need to finally get Techstream. However, the inverter goes up to 200 fahrenheit, quickly, when the car is started and idling, and can get up to 210-220 easily (briefly as I put it in neutral at that stage).

    I will order a new pump and install that, reset the computers, and see what happens next. I am impressed I could drive 140kms with no inverter cooling, without any breakdowns, and hopefully without any permanent damage...

    (If anyone ever got EngineLink to work with PIDs for the NWH11 for the individual block voltages, I would be v interested!)
     
  3. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    There are a bunch of Gen 1 PIDs here if you follow the "NHW11" vehicle database link. It's an XML file, and on the same first-linked file you can see two "exporters", one for ScanGauge II XGAUGE format and one for the Torque app. The "exporters" are just XQuery scripts that munge the XML database into whatever the target tool's format is. If you can find the format EngineLink wants to import, it shouldn't be hard to write another exporter.
     
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  4. landspeed

    landspeed Active Member

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    I had a look; I was going to find my Android tablet, but I found a mini VCI on the local auction site here in NZ, and it will arrive in a day or two, so I will finally have TechStream :)
    I will use the link later, so I can have live data in the car on TorquePro once I fix it.

    The EngineLink app seems to have an issue where it can’t read the replies from ECUs in some cases unless the app developers modify their source code to add something manually, and I think the NWH11 battery ECU fits into this category (i hope I am wrong but other peoples experience and my experiments suggest this)

    Hopefully the inverter isn’t fried....
     
  5. ZahirBaba

    ZahirBaba New Member

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    My inverter coolant pump confuses me as it shows like sucking coolant abit and releases... and my car does not change from combustion to battery...please i need help on this issue
     
  6. landspeed

    landspeed Active Member

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    I don't know exactly what you mean - but are you saying that you can see coolant circulating, but then it stops? I read on some other posts that some inverter coolant pump failures actually start normally then stop shortly after. If the coolant isn't flowing, you shouldn't drive the car; the test is to see if the inverter coolant keeps flowing constantly (I believe; I'm sure more experienced member will correct me if wrong but I think it should run all the time)
     
  7. landspeed

    landspeed Active Member

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    OK; I received the Techstream / Mini VCI cable, I installed it (on a virtual machine, under MacOS), on Windows 7 32-bit, and it works fine! So this could be an option (there is still a risk of VM break-out but it is a lower risk than using it directly as a dual-boot for Windows etc). (note - Techstream v 14)

    I tested the car, and found that all the blocks except two have extremely close voltages, so the battery looks, overall, in good condition. Two of the blocks (8 and 14) are 'weak', basically in that one cell charges to full in a few seconds, and also discharges in a few seconds; so the classic 'dead' cell. I haven't checked the battery computer yet, but the battery isn't out of balance - instead it has two dodgy modules.

    In terms of error codes, I got P3000 and P3006; the latter was under the battery ECU and the former under the HV ECU.

    Interestingly, I didn't get any inverter error codes. The inverter 12-volt output is working fine, and it is able to charge and discharge the battery fine, so it seems that it survived. It heats up to 45 degrees C when the car is in neutral, and to 70 degrees C when the car is in park, and charging the battery. The coolant is not flowing at all.

    I will order a new inverter coolant pump now, and will (soon) remove the battery and rebuild. I am thinking to use the 'good' module from each of the bad blocks to make a 'good' block, and then the other block will be made from two modules from one of my spare NWH20 batteries. It will be interesting to see how this works!

    The only other thing that is interesting is that the inverter isn't fried, despite a long trip on the highway. I can only assume it was because I was driving gently, but also because the HV battery is so dead (on those two cells in the two modules) that the inverter didn't actually do much work to charge or discharge the battery! There are *no* codes for the inverter at all, on Techstream, which is partially reassuring!
     
  8. mroberds

    mroberds Member

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    I know you've got Techstream now, but I figured I'd add my $0.02 about the PID files for Torque Pro, mostly because I just made another post about it. :) Also, sometimes it's easier to carry a Bluetooth OBD-II dongle in the car and have Torque Pro on your phone, versus the laptop and Mini-VCI cable for Techstream.

    1. You need the Torque Pro app - the paid version. The free version of Torque does not import PID files. I used Torque Pro 1.8.202, but that was in 2018; there is probably a newer version now.

    2. I downloaded two versions of the PID file. One is linked here Scangauge or Torque App? | Page 5 | PriusChat and one was from kutasg on Github (probably the same one you found). Both of the files had mistakes in the same two lines - one line for whether the "Check Engine" light is on or not, and another line for one of the battery block voltages. I made a post about how to fix those mistakes: Scangauge or Torque App? | Page 7 | PriusChat
     
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  9. mroberds

    mroberds Member

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    My 2001 is still running the original inverter coolant pump, so I have no detailed advice about replacing it. I did suspect it once, and I can confirm that it's a lot easier to put your hands on it if you take out the left headlight. If possible, do that after the car has been sitting in a nice warm garage for a while; those long plastic tabs that hold the headlight to the upper radiator support get a little brittle after a couple of decades. :) Mine are all still there, but one of them is cracked from the bolt hole to the outside edge.

    I have drained and refilled the inverter coolant a few times, and I can tell you that the bleeding procedure is somewhat involved. The criteria for success is simple, and it's been posted several times: take off the inverter coolant tank cap and look inside; you should see ripples of flowing coolant in there when the inverter coolant pump is running.

    For your first time, do everything the way it says in the manual. After I do what the book says, I also use a Mity-Vac hand-held vacuum pump on the two hoses you connect to the two bleeder valves right in front (FRONT) of the inverter. I also have a piece of about 1" diameter vinyl hose, about two feet long, that I stuff into the top of the inverter coolant tank, at kind of an angle so it more or less seals. I then apply biosourced vacuum to the other end of the hose (long-life coolant ensures my lungs will never rust). The idea with the Mity-Vac and sucking on the big hose is to coax out as many remaining bubbles as possible.

    I still usually don't have the ripples after doing all that. To get the ripples back, I've done it two ways: 1) drive the car about a mile, at speeds less than 30 mph, and preferably up and down a hill if there's one handy. That gets about another quart (liter) of coolant to go in. Then drive the same mile again, add a little less than a pint (half liter), and the ripples are back. 2) Leave the car sit at least overnight (8-10 hours), or longer if possible. When you get back to it, top up the inverter coolant, and check for ripples - you just might be lucky.
     
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