Prius Prime Oil Filter - how come there are two options for the Prime?

Discussion in 'Prime Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Steven Chavez, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. Steven Chavez

    Steven Chavez New Member

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    Last week I did my first oil change on my 2017 Prius Prime advanced and used part # 04152-YZZA6 (paper cartridge with rubber O-ring) from the local Toyota Dealer. The local Toyota dealer over-charged me for the filter so I went online looking for better pricing for future oil changes and noticed that there are two different oil filters identified for the Prime. The other oil filter part # is 90915YZZF2 which looks like a conventional metal-housing/fully disposable oil filter. It also says that this YZZF2 filter fits my 2017 Prius Prime Advanced. Question: has anyone used this other oil filter (part # 90915YZZF2) on a Prime that came equipped with the plastic filter housing? For it to mount there would have to be a protruding threaded cylinder in the center of the mounting surface for the conventional filter to mount to. When I did my first oil change I was not aware of a conventional oil filter being available for the Prime and so I wasn't looking closely to see if there was a protruding threaded cylinder present to screw a conventional oil filter to. If anyone has successfully used the 90915YZZF2 filter on a Prius Prime that came equipped with the 04152-YZZA6 filter then please share your thoughts on which oil filter you prefer to use and why. I do miss the conventional metal oil filters with the rubber gasket on the end that makes it easy to know when the filter has been tightened to 3/4 turn so that you do not over-tighten it. This new plastic housing and O-ring scheme is not as easy to know if you tightened enough. I initially tightened it thinking it was tightened enough (trying to avoid over-tightening) and I still had oil leaking so I had to torque it some more. Thanks.
     
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  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    The o-ring on the permanent (plastic) housing style goes in a groove along the length of the barrel, not at the end flange. If it's leaking oil unless you tighten more, something doesn't sound right.

    Instruction on the oil filter box shows the o-ring position.

    Torque is 18 ft/lb IIRC. I'll verify tomorrow and post an instruction PDF.

    The two oil filter options is a factor with all 4th gens, not just the prime. There was a switch over, maybe half way through model year 2017 IIRC.

    You cannot use one or the other. You can switch from one style to the other, but it involves significant parts to be changed. There's a thread with links on it here. Probably in 4th Gen maintenance forum?
     
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  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    Attached Files:

    #3 Mendel Leisk, Dec 7, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  4. FuelMiser

    FuelMiser Senior Member

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    I believe I saw a thread in the non-Prime Gen 4 section that describes a retro-fit kit that converts the paper cartridge fitting back to the metal spin on, but the basic answer is you can't use the metal spin on filter with the new style cartridge fitting. I believe the other posts described the correct way to install the large O-ring to avoid leaks. Best bet is buy the 5-pack of filter cartridges at Amazon.com, and don't forget the 10-pack of drain plug washers. These should be changed at each service.
     
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    @Steven Chavez If you know the O-ring is mispositioned, and opt to take the oil filter housing off to reposition it, you'll only lose about a cup of oil: the bulk of the oil is much lower, in the sump.
     
  6. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    As has been explained, they are not interchangeable.

    As for the leak, you need to get the o-ring in the right place as mentioned, but it's also very important to lube the o--ring before putting it on the cap and then again, before screwing in the cap. This makes sure it's good and slippery so it won't grab the housing and get twisted out of position. It's a miserable design that should be outlawed. My last motorcycle had the same system.
     
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  7. Steven Chavez

    Steven Chavez New Member

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    Excellent information guys! Really appreciate you all taking the time to share what you know and the references to previous posts on this topic. Mendel - thanks for setting me straight. I don't think I will be doing a major retrofit just to use the old style oil filters. One thing I have noticed is that these plastic housing filters seem to hold more oil than the conventional filters so that is probably a plus. I did follow all of the O-ring diagrams and made sure to place it in the correct groove and to lube it up real well before installing it on the housing and then again right before screwing the housing back on. When I placed the new O-ring on the housing I noticed that it was not a real tight fit on the housing so my guess is that in order to seal properly the O-ring had to be compressed real well in order to seal up any micro gaps that may form between the mating surfaces. I also noticed a thin flexible spring-like piece of metal that serves as sort of a reference. This flexible metal spring presses against the plastic housing as you screw the housing on. On my first attempt at tightening it leaked after thinking I had sufficiently tightened the housing, however, I noticed that the keyed notches in the plastic housing had not rotated past the end of the spring. After I tightened the housing the second time I noticed that the protruding keyed notches in the plastic housing had rotated just past the tip of the metal spring to where the spring had less tension on it because now it was not being compressed by the protruding notch of the housing. The leak stopped after I got it to that point. So it appears that the metal spring is a sort of indicator of how far the plastic filter housing should be tightened to. Did anyone else also notice this? Thanks again for all of the great feedback!
     
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  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    It was the Toyota oil filter, and the O-ring was in a plastic envelope in the box? I've always found the O-ring to be a snug fit. The instructions caution against doing this, but I invariably need to use a slim screwdriver to lift the old O-ring up and out of the groove. Considering it's all oil, good luck not using something to pry with. I guess they're just concerned you'll scratch the groove, create a leak. If the O-ring was a bit loose I'd say it was defective, though I've never encountered that. Maybe flakey memory?

    The clip? I don't really pay it any attention, really think it was some engineer's idea, but it really does nothing. At least it does not impede removal or install. Once the plastic cap is screwed in enough that the O-ring is within the barrel, it seems to me it should seal, which make it seem a little odd, that with yours it continued to leak until you tightened it down an extra bit.

    I've had one instance where the O-ring apparently jumped the groove as I was installing it, ended up at the flange, as I discovered when removing it. Lucky no leak.

    I'm thinking remove the cap and check the O-ring location. You'll at most lose a cup of oil. You're description that the O-ring was a bit loose is odd.

    Or: just monitor. Raise the car again in a week or two, see that everything's dry. And monitor oil with the dipstick.
     
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  9. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Good point. I thought about mentioning that before. It's the o-ring that makes the seal inside the barrel, not the flange against the face of the housing. So, additional torque, once it's tight enough to stay in place should not be what keeps it from leaking. It just needs to not come unscrewed and the o-ring in the barrel provides the seal. This is quite different from the traditional spin on filter with the seal on the face.
     
    #9 jerrymildred, Dec 8, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
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  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    Yeah examining the flange gap you might be able to tell if the O-ring "rode up". There should be zero gap to the machined face of the engine.

    I've had the O-ring shift like that, oil change before last. All-in-all not that good a system, too fussy.

    Again, OP said his O-ring was almost loose, sounds odd. It should be slightly tensioned, when you push it onto the groove. Tensioned enough that it's hard to remove, takes a screw driver to lift it up. It's a slippery cuss, lol.
     
  11. Jim Nagle

    Jim Nagle Junior Member

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    Oh man. Thank goodness the Prime doesn't require as frequent changes.
    So I just bought the oil cartridge which included the O-ring. But I don't have this
    special tool SST:09228-06501. At the risk of starting a firestorm, can I even begin to do what I
    had thought was going to be a simple job? I've done countless oil changes on
    05 Prius, 02 Subaru, 95 Nissan...motorcycles etc. I'm generally fairly competent
    and have a floor jack, jackstands and a wide assortment of wrenches. But y'all
    are scaring me with this. And I've never bothered to torque wrench on a filter.
    My hands and common sense have always been good enough.
    I hate when car companies make routine maintenance unnecessarily
    difficult so they can force you into going to their service depts.
     
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    I use the standard Honda automotive oil filter, it's worked for the last 4~5 Hondas we had or changed the oil on, our current Prius, and I see it's gonna fit our son's CX-5 oil filter as well. It's 14 flute, nothing fancy, and about 64.5 mm inside face-to-face.
     
  13. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Here's the filter wrench I got. Works perfectly. But I see that it's not available now. At least it'll help you know what to look for.

    As for a torque wrench, I've never used one for an oil change either. But I've only been changing my own oil for about 45-50 years. :D

    Many people tend to over-think the Prius. There are some things that are different, but it's not rocket science.
     
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  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    That's a few more years than me lol. I recall many honda filters saying to seat the filter, then rotate a further 3/4 turn. The had numbers on the side to help with this. A bit funky though: how to define "seated".

    I stick with torque wrenches, just have them (yeah them: three sizes, lol) arrayed on a carpet scrap on my work bench, amid the other long wrenches. The biggest issue is recalling the torque value. I usually mark the inside cover of the vehicle's receipt book with common torque values.
     
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  15. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Here is what I use. I had my salesman check and this is what my preferred dealer uses. (It's in stock)

     
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  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    This. You don't need a clever socket that extends down onto specifically oriented stiffener fins.
     
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  17. Jim Nagle

    Jim Nagle Junior Member

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    So up to this point this has been completely straightforward.

    I got off the filter assembly and am ready to reinstall it.
    Seems like superfluous to lubricate a surface that is already oily (O-ring install)
    but okay.

    Assuming no unforeseen issues on the remainder of the task, (NEVER MIND)

    You tube had the explanation for that.

    what is the process
    for turning off the maintenance required warning. I know how to do it on our 05.
    I assume it's similar. Thanks in advance.
     
    #17 Jim Nagle, Dec 20, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
  18. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    I think they're just making sure, but yeah, I know what you mean, lol. Maybe a bit of fresh oil helps, is slightly slicker: you want it really well lubed when reinstalling, not binding at all.

    They also say to remove the old O-ring without metal implements, just your fingers: good luck with that...
     
  19. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Not superfluous at all. You really don't want that o-ring to grab and twist, so even if it looks slippery, the added step is good insurance compared to what can happen if it gets out of place and your engine pukes out its oil.

    I have to look it up every time. From page 432 of my manual. Yours may be in a different place, but probably the same procedure. When it says, "Keep pressing the button," it means continue to hold the MPH-KPH button as opposed to keep pressing it again and again. Pretty sloppy writing on Toyota's part.
    Screen Shot 2018-12-20 at 3.25.37 PM.png
     
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  20. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    I had to double check.
    The thread title is about the Prime and that process will not work on Gen 4 or Prime. ;)
     
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