Wont crank and 12v is ok. Lost.

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by bigblock67, Aug 30, 2018.

  1. bigblock67

    bigblock67 433K with new cells

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    Cranks 1/2 turn then just clicks at rear of car when key is turned to start. 12v battery is OK. Where so I start, Gen 1 with 424,000 miles
     
  2. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    I'll preface this by stating I am far from experienced when it comes to Gen 1. That being said:

    Is there a check engine light?

    Red Triangle of death?

    Does dashboard remain fully lit the entire time?
     
  3. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    The 12v system supplies the power to operate the main relays for the HV battery. The main relays are located inside the HV battery case.

    A few quick possibilities:

    12v is too weak to maintain the relays closed.
    A loose connection is interrupting 12v power to the relays
    Bad relay
    A safety signal is telling the relay to open
     
  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Once the relays close, the DC-DC converter takes over the 12 volt supply, so weakness of the 12 volt battery becomes kind of moot at that point as a reason the relays opened again.

    I would begin investigating with the fourth choice above: the car powered down for a reason, and will probably tell you what the reason was, if asked with a Prius-capable code reader.

    Inconveniently, almost all of the computers in Gen 1 can give you codes with no reader tool at all, if you're willing to count some light blinks, but the reason in this case is probably stored in the HV ECU or Battery ECU, which don't have light blink options and only talk to a reader tool.

    The gold-standard, plug-it-in-it-just-works option is Toyota Techstream, but thanks to a lot of work by vincent1449p and others, it is possible to make some other tools work and at least retrieve basic info from those ECUs. A ScanGauge II can do it, and probably the Torque app, if you're willing to load some car-specific definitions in.

    -Chap
     
  5. LeeD

    LeeD Junior Member

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    Check your 100A fuse in the engine bay. Top right corner.
    Inside the fuse box itself, it's on the top left corner.

    I didn't read this whole post in detail, so this may not be it, but on the surface it sounds similar to an issue I had.

    I accidentally reversed the jumper cables on my battery once. Car wouldn't start after correcting it. It would act funny and made no sense.

    Found this 100A fuse blown. It's a bolted in fuse, not a normal pull-out.
    If it is blown, then you need to do some surgery to get access to the bolts, to unscrew the nuts that hold the fuse in place.

    In my case, I destroyed the fuse in trying to remove it, not realizing it was a bolt in.
    I had to remove the whole fuse box assembly to remove the bottom cover to access the bolts.
    The cables that go to the 100A fuse are thick, as you can imagine, and don't have a lot of flex or slack.
     
  6. bigblock67

    bigblock67 433K with new cells

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    Good info on the fuse but it’s ok.
    Removed main battery from car and all cells were 7.7 or higher. cleaned all connections and reinstalled. Engine starts and dies after 7 seconds and triangle appears with a click sound in rear. No codes. My cheap scanner clears codes but not showing all apparently. Learned was issue is not.
     
  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    What;s the calculated state of charge of the traction battery? That's something you can get from lots of readers, Torque phone app, etc., if you plug in the right PID definition.

    -Chap
     
  8. mroberds

    mroberds Member

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    I can verify that Torque Pro will tell you this, when used with a generic Chinese Bluetooth OBDII reader. (I don't think regular Torque can do it.) Get the PID definition file you need from this post https://priuschat.com/threads/scangauge-or-torque-app.120091/page-5#post-1752194 , edit it as described in this post Scangauge or Torque App? | Page 7 | PriusChat , and load the edited PID definition file into your phone/tablet.
     
  9. bigblock67

    bigblock67 433K with new cells

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    After a 3030 code , removed main battery from car. Repaired 3 bad connections and reinstalled. 3030 code is gone but have 3131 code. Motor runs for 20 seconds then dies. Yellow triangle
    ?
     
  10. bigblock67

    bigblock67 433K with new cells

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    Oops 3191 is correct code. Cleaned my glades
     
  11. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    P3191 iis the code for "engine did not start". You thought it started and ran for 20 seconds, but it was only cranking for that time and trying to start; this fools everybody, because MG1 cranks the engine so fast it sounds like any other car's engine starting. But the P3191 is telling you the straight story.

    What is the state of charge of your traction battery? Every single 20 second cranked-didn't-start attempt is going to cost that a percentage point or so. So you have a limited number of chances to figure out what engine issue is making starting difficult. If the battery charge gets too low to crank any more, your car will be an expensive landscaping ornament until you get hold of a high-voltage charger and several hours to charge it back up.

    -Chap
     
  12. bigblock67

    bigblock67 433K with new cells

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    I do now own a charger since I failed to borrow one. I did Change 12v battery then removed air filter and cleaned butterfly and throttle body. It started with triangle and explanation point on. No codes. About 20 minutes with foot in throttle and stumbling and missing out. The triangle and exp point went ont. foot off it dies and foot on , starts as it should. It may be fixed.
    Have to wait for nice day to test drive. Walking home today would not be fun
     
  13. bigblock67

    bigblock67 433K with new cells

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    The test drive was disappointing. The triangle & exclaim point came on and motor slowly died. Got a push home and charger showed 260v. It’s not getting a charge. No codes. How to chase issue?
     
  14. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Usual engine stuff. How's the compression? How's the ignition? How's the fuel delivery?

    I don't know a really easy way to check exhaust back pressure (plugged cat?), but yeah, that too.

    -Chap
     
  15. bigblock67

    bigblock67 433K with new cells

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    So before the test ride the battery was st 320 v.
    I drove 2 miles and visited a friend leaving it idleing for 20 minutes. Then 30 sec after leaving triangle &exp point on motor slowly died. Back home battery was at 260v . So we are not getting a charge back to main. Could that be an inverter issue?
     
  16. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    If the engine isn't able to run consistently and produce power, there won't be much or any charge back to main; rather, power will be used trying to keep the car moving and nursing the stalling engine along.

    Why is the engine running so poorly?

    -Chap
     
  17. bigblock67

    bigblock67 433K with new cells

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    Engine always ran ok. Only after triangle and ex point lights
    Charged main again and now have a flashing white screen. Never seen that. Motor ran and car would not move. When it shut itself off could move the car some.
     
  18. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    320v would be 8.4 volts per module. That's probably 100%+ charged.
    260v would be 6.8 volts per module. That's effectively 100% discharged.

    How are you charging the HV battery?
    Was it charged while installed in the car?
    Was that 320v measurement taken immediately after disconnecting the charger?
    Was the test drive performed immediately after the battery charge or did the battery sit for an hour or two?
     
  19. bigblock67

    bigblock67 433K with new cells

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    I have a charger purchased from Raj in CA
    It was charged in car. Test drive was 20 min after unplugged.
    Have no gauges other OBD 2
     
  20. bigblock67

    bigblock67 433K with new cells

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    The main at rest is 292v and other is 12.2 v
    Dash lights dimmed way low trying to start. It did start but car won’t move. It’s bucks several times and motor dies. No reverse, no Codes
     
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